RandomThread II

[kkirspel]

Actually that sums up none of the questions I asked you.

EDIT:
and there's so much shit wrong with your fb thread that I really don't want to open that can of worms... but I guess I do have to ask, you're saying the of 30,000 kids that have been brainwashed to kill for Kony, all of them should blame themselves?

[MaK]

I didn't think I would have to post these here.

[jangalomph]

And why thank you Mak.
Now for randomness..

[kkirspel]

Thanks for posting those Mak.
I'll be the first to admit I hadn't researched the money issue and that according to those videos and their sources its pretty fucked up that Uganda/victims/etc don't get as much as possible (I understand using some of the money to maintain the company at the most basic level but the ratio looks to be way out of proportion).

That said, this movement is bigger than that company. Don't dismiss the problem because the company got greedy, or because the movement's 'leader' got drunk.
The goal is to stop this army. Maybe that girl in the video is right and the worst stuff Kony's done has been in the past, but that doesn't change the fact he has done these things. he should therefor be arrested for them. And with the suggestion he's already dead - great. But how about we make sure? If I was a criminal of that caliber I'd probably spread rumors that I'm dead too. And even if he is dead, that means its just someone else leading the thing. How about we stop them? The goal is to stop this army.

idk I just feel like you guys find discrepancies that are extraneous from the main focus of the movement and use them as an excuse to dismiss the whole thing. I don't look at the world with a naive eye, but I'm willing to overlook some of this stuff if this is still the greater good.

EDIT:
you still didn't answer me janga.
(though I guess you can dismiss the question referring to the money since you had a valid point there... even if it was pure speculation and had no research behind it)

[jangalomph]

Honestly kkirspel, I am 100% all for stopping these horrible acts. But you need to do it with a whole bunch of military action. And children will be killed. If you want to stop it. You gotta kill the children who looked up to Kony as their leader or they'll kill you. Its just it'll take so much to stop all of these acts without a whole bunch of military action. I really wish we could help all of these poor children. But the truth is we probably cant.

[joe_rogers_11155]

it is times like this that i desparately wish i could go one-man-army and deliver some indiscriminate justice to the regions in question. but i cant.

there is truly not much that the average citizen can do about these problems. it is best to let JSOC handle it and just focus on improving the united states...via improving the average quality of life, promoting fairness, enforcing our remaining freedoms, and boosting meaningful education.

on an unrelated note:

[kkirspel]

I'm not trying to fool myself into thinking you just arrest Kony or whoever now leads them and the children will lay down their guns and say sowie.
It won't be pretty or easy or cheap, but it has to be stopped somehow or it has the chance to just repeat itself. At the very least, doing nothing will not make it any better.

EDIT:
All very valid points joe. Including wishing I could just go Rambo on them.
But like they said in that video, the government (not just ours) won't do anything about it, unless you tell the government this is important to you. And that's all I'm asking.

[jangalomph]

I see what you mean Kkirspel..

any how.. my favorite song.

[Smurftyours]

Its not America's business to go play hero in every country that needs help or exploitation. Boy did that get us far in the last two wars we had didn't it. Yeah its a horrible thing, but frankly its none of our fucking business and people need to stop creating such a big deal about things they can't do anything about to change.

[Major Banter]

Just to throw my oar into the Kony 2012 thing.

Charlie Brooker, a British political satirist, takes a lighthearted approach to the campaign but points out some important stuff. There's some very serious things to consider.

This is propaganda. You state yourself that the US/UK should not have gone to Iraq. This is a similar situation; things will be made worse. Any intervention in the past has caused retaliation. The ICC is investigating Ugandan Army atrocities. Should that army be trained to be more efficient, more dangerous, more effective? I mean, let's look at what Stephen Oola, a lawyer with the Kampala-based Refugee Law Project says;

“Kony did not start that rebellion, and that is where the context is missing," noted Oola. "It was started by ex-soldiers who were pushed out of power. So who are we to think that taking out Kony wouldn’t bring another Kony? For the campaign to portray the issue as Kony vs. humanity is to miss the point. It’s a bigger political problem, and something we have been struggling with in this country.”

Imagine; US trained soldiers becoming a new Kony because all you've done is taken down one man, not fixed a nation. Has this happened before? Yes. The Mujahideen were trained by the UK SAS. They moved into tribes such as the Taliban and organisations such as Al Qaeda. Saddam Hussein's bodyguards were UK SAS trained. I'm sure there's other examples.

What about the excellent criticism from The NY Time's TMS Ruge who states:

"It is imperative that we don't hijack the voice and agency of the actors we are trying to help. Instead we should use our social clout to help them realize they have a voice, and we shouldn't dare assume we know what's best for them."

Remember how much every Westerner blindly supported the Arab Spring? That wasn't a push for democracy however, it was a push to kick out leaders (some of which who had been supported in by Western powers). It was anarchy. The blind support by the West has shown how short-sighted we are; an extreme religious political power is looking to take over Egypt's government. This isn't about a white man's problem, this is about Uganda. What do you know about those people? What do you know about what they want?

This results in the far better approach thought of by Adam Branch of Al Jazeera (an extremely good news organisation) who states;

"In terms of activism, the first step is to re-think the question: Instead of asking how the US can intervene in order to solve Africa's conflicts, we need to ask what we are already doing to cause those conflicts in the first place. How are we, as consumers, contributing to land grabbing and to the wars ravaging this region? How are we, as US citizens, allowing our government to militarise Africa in the name of the "War on Terror" and its effort to secure oil resources?"

Oh, and you'll find this information interesting. It's from Invisible Children's Director of Ideology.

"Thirty-seven percent of our budget goes directly to central African-related programs, about 20 percent goes to salaries and overhead, and the remaining 43 percent goes to our awareness programs [...] We got criticized for spending $1 million on travel expenses, but getting 130 people around the country and around the world is expensive. [...] the truth about Invisible Children is that we are not an aid organization, and we don’t intend to be. I think people think we’re over there delivering shoes or food. But we are an advocacy and awareness organization."

Let's also look at a Ugandan's opinion.

There are far bigger issues than a warlord here.

'What are you actually trying to do with this campaign' is the big question. Give me specifics, not 'stop Kony' and 'stop kidnapping'.

I found all of this with five minutes of googling. What backing up of your opinion have you done, KKirspel?



To every single supporter of KONY 2012, I beg you to simply read this page. You don't care about the campaign but want to stop him anyway? You're no better. READ IT.

http://www.boingboing.net/2012/03/08/african-voices-respond-to-hype.html

[kkirspel]

Banter I in no way disagreed with any of that. The movement is to raise awareness in hopes of governments to respond to the situation in a correct and meaningful response. What response is that exactly? I don't know. I don't live there, never have been there, and don't know the way things work there. But the governments I hope to respond to the situation are much better equipped to determine what should be done.

As I've already said, arresting one man won't stop the problem. But he is an international war criminal so there shouldn't be any objection to actually arresting him.

I want these kinds of war crimes to stop, and not just in this one particular area of the world. Its just the one that currently has the light shown on it and you have to start somewhere, why not where people are already pushing at? Its not a perfect world where you go after the worst first. You need the support, the demand to do something.

I'm not suggesting any particular course of action, other than my government look into how to help.
I know I did bring up the "we have a huge ass army, lets do something with it" argument, but that was more to point out if we're going to do something in Iraq, why not Uganda (and surrounding areas)? I don't mean to say throwing an army at a problem solves it.

I know there are many many other terrible people out there. I'd like them all brought to justice. Why do you assume I only care about this one? I didn't say that.

I know the USA is screwed up enough already, I've mentioned that, but that's something we could fix in a relatively short amount of time if we got our head out of our ass. And by no means would not providing help in this situation make the US any more capable to fixing itself.

Again... is it really just too much to hope for, for people to raise support to rally their government to end war crimes being committed in another country?

[jangalomph]

Its not America's business to go play hero in every country that needs help or exploitation. Boy did that get us far in the last two wars we had didn't it. Yeah its a horrible thing, but frankly its none of our fucking business and people need to stop creating such a big deal about things they can't do anything about to change.

qftw. But we all know america tries to be the world police, sadly.

[kkirspel]

Its not America's business to go play hero in every country that needs help or exploitation. Boy did that get us far in the last two wars we had didn't it. Yeah its a horrible thing, but frankly its none of our fucking business and people need to stop creating such a big deal about things they can't do anything about to change.

qftw. But we all know america tries to be the world police, sadly.

Normally I speak out against the US trying to control everything, like with Iraq, Iran, who can have nukes, who can't, etc.
who are we to determine what other countries can and can't do?
But in this case... it. is. war. crimes. I'm not advocating we make someone pass a law, or end uranium enrichment programs. I'm advocating stopping war crimes from being committed.

...jesus. Is it such a hard concept to grasp/agree with?

EDIT:
And yes, I'm sorry this got blown out of proportion. I didn't aim to start a huge debate in the randomthread, but people were clearly misinterpreting what I was trying to do with my orginal post and I just felt the need to defend myself...
since... since no one else did...

[Armageddon]

Less KONY more BRONY.

[jangalomph]

Tis okay kkirspel ^^