New Rig Feedback.

PC related discussion and other issues.

Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby rb_lestr on Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:54 pm

All that ram stuff just went way over my head.
I think i get it.
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby xoqolatl on Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:55 am

Ooops, there was a typo: i meant 4:5 divider not 4:3.

I'll try to explain it a bit better:
CPU core frequency is derived from FSB by a multiplier: default speed for Q6600 is FSB 266 * multiplier 9 = 2400MHz. RAM speed is derived from FSB by a RAM divider; divider is a proportion of FSB to RAM clock (we are talking about real clock here, not DDR; DDR is effective frequency and means that memory makes two transfers in one clock cycle). So with FSB=266, running a 1:1 divider gives you DDR-533, 3:4 is DDR-710, 4:5 is DDR-667, 2:3 is DDR-800, 1:2 is DDR-1066. Normally, motherboard choses the divider based on SPD readings - SPD is a kind of memory present on every memory stick that holds typical usage info: rated speed, voltage and timings. If you put a DDR-1066 (PC2-8500) kit and a Q6600, it will run at 1:2 divider. However, when overclocking, you wil ahve to choose divider by yourself, because if you increase FSB to 400 while running a 1:2 divider, it would demand DDR-1600 speeds from your memory - no DDR2 can work at that speed. To get best performance, you will have to choose best divider and timings for your FSB. For example, lets say you push FSB to 350, thats 350*9=3150MHz on CPU. You can run your memory at 4:5 divider for DDR-875 with CL4, or 3:4 divider for DDR-933 - but you might have to loosen timings to be able to clock your RAM higher.

Dont worry though, this is advanced performance tuning, it might not be as much fun for you as for me, you wont have to know all that stuff. Just clock your CPU as high as you can, than choose a divider hat will give you RAM speed closest to rated, 1000MHz in case of that OCZ Platinum CL5 kit.

EDIT: w00t Im a pheropod! I will hang around popular threads making squeaky sounds and funny smell :)
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby rb_lestr on Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:10 am

Ah right i get it now.
I kind of wanted to avoid messing with voltages and the RAM and stuff, i'm not into advanced overclocking or anything. I just wanted to get a nice simple CPU overclock to get around 3ghz, and to adjust the RAM accordingly.
Will it require alot of tweaking and testing before you get a nice sturdy result?
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby Sorgey on Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:07 am

xoqolatl wrote:CPU core frequency is derived from FSB by a multiplier: default speed for Q6600 is FSB 266 * multiplier 9 = 2400MHz. RAM speed is derived from FSB by a RAM divider; divider is a proportion of FSB to RAM clock (we are talking about real clock here, not DDR; DDR is effective frequency and means that memory makes two transfers in one clock cycle). So with FSB=266, running a 1:1 divider gives you DDR-533, 3:4 is DDR-710, 4:5 is DDR-667, 2:3 is DDR-800, 1:2 is DDR-1066. Normally, motherboard choses the divider based on SPD readings - SPD is a kind of memory present on every memory stick that holds typical usage info: rated speed, voltage and timings. If you put a DDR-1066 (PC2-8500) kit and a Q6600, it will run at 1:2 divider. However, when overclocking, you wil ahve to choose divider by yourself, because if you increase FSB to 400 while running a 1:2 divider, it would demand DDR-1600 speeds from your memory - no DDR2 can work at that speed. To get best performance, you will have to choose best divider and timings for your FSB. For example, lets say you push FSB to 350, thats 350*9=3150MHz on CPU. You can run your memory at 4:5 divider for DDR-875 with CL4, or 3:4 divider for DDR-933 - but you might have to loosen timings to be able to clock your RAM higher.)


My brain just exploded...
All I have to do is go into my bios and It has this really nifty auto-overclock feature. I just change one number to a higher number and bam, My porn runs faster.
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby xoqolatl on Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:35 am

rb_lestr wrote:Will it require alot of tweaking and testing before you get a nice sturdy result?

No. I'd say 80% of performance gain is from raw clocks, 20% from tweaks.

Auto-overclocking is a nice feature, but will never replace hand tweaking single values. There are millions of combinations of CPU + mobo + memory, with hand tweaking you can get most of your hardware.
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby Bema on Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:08 pm

I got the OCZ Platinum too. Came highly reccomended - especially for the price.

Finally ordered my system yesterday. Will arrive on Monday ready for me to build! In the end I went with the SLI, and have no regrets. The CPU cooler thing pushed me slightly over £800 - but that was just due P&P. If i'd selected free delivery it would have been £800 on the dot, give or take a few pence. :)

Thanks again for your advice guys. I'll post pictures and stuff Monday evening. :D
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby rb_lestr on Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:49 pm

K,
I chose the OCZ platinum.
Also changed the CPU cooler to the Tuniq Tower.
VERY close to version 1.0
Can't wait till my next 2 paychecks, then this rig is mine.

xoqolatl, what in your opinion would be the easiest overclock with my ram, cpu and mobo with the best performance?
400FSB?
I don't want to push the hardware too much, but i don't want to skimp on performance i COULD be getting also.
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby xoqolatl on Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:29 pm

Easiest would be something around 360FSB * 9 = 3240MHz, RAM running 4:5 divider at 900MHz, it might even do CL4 at that frequency. Also you would probably have to bump northbridge voltage by +0.1V and CPU voltage by +0.1-0.15V (depending on particular CPU).
But I see no reason why you wouldnt go higher; the same procedure can take you up to 3.6GHz if your CPU is good.
What to do:
- begin with 400FSB, +0.1V on northbridge, +0.2V on CPU, RAM at 4:5, stock speed
- reboot, in Windows run ORTHOS for several hours to check stability.
- if it's stable, decrease CPU voltage by one step and check stability again.
- if not stable, increase CPU voltage by one step and monitor your temps with RealTemp or CoreTemp. Anything above 60-65°C on air is too much.
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby Bema on Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:35 pm

Well...

2 hours on and im still building it. All these wires from the PSU & then connector things for the motherboard are slowing me down! I don't want to add in the RAM, GFX & sound cards etc etc until im sure i've got all these wires down!

Also - the thing is bloody massive! I'm gonna have to dismantle my shelf and re-assemble it to make sure it fits where it's gotta go!
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby Bema on Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:41 pm

Sorry for double post - but im still going!

Took a break and am going back at it with increased determination!

Question: If I switch the PC on when all of these random wires(I can't find a use for half...) aren't all plugged in it's not going to explode on me is it? I know from personal experience it'll just beep and some LED flashes if I forget to plug the GFX power back in - can I assume thats as dangerous as it's going to get?!

Here's to hoping! Back with updates soon!


UPDATES: Well theres power now! Finally! I thought i'd broken something, but I just hadn't trapsed a power cable to a socket some random socket on the opposite side of the motherboard. Not entirely sure why I needed to seeing as my old PC only needed the one PSU cable plugged directly into the motherboard. Probably has something to do with powering the chasis fans.

But yar - Took a job getting it to snake past the GFX card and the massive CPU heatsink/fan. Not entirely sure it'll reach if I put the second card in!

Just about ready to test it's stable now. Luckily I have an old CRT in my room, so no need to demolish my current set up just yet. Although I will have to if I want to get the Sound card & DVD drive. Putting that off for a little bit longer until im sure it's all good!
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby Bema on Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:44 pm

HAY! Treble post! I hate doing this but...

...Thought I should post back to say: Mission Acomplished!

But christ it took a lot of work. Never had so many PC problems...still got stuff to sort (like the graphics cards) but nearly there.

Got loads of cuts & grazes on my hands and knuckles. Looks like i've been bare knuckle fighting!

Anyway - thanks to you all again!
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby rb_lestr on Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:00 pm

Post pics when you're done.
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby RC-1290 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:18 pm

I wanted a new easily upgradeable computer, for gaming and modding, so I just ordered this for €842(price only includes the components themselves):
-MSI RX3870-T2D E-OC (Gpu)
-Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64 bit (OS)
-Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E8200 (CPU)
-Cooler Master RealPower M620 (Power Supply thingy)
-Cooler Master CM 690 (purple dotted fly)
-LiteOn LH-20A1S (DVD Burner, Sorry for the previous description, testing if you were still paying attention)
-MSI P35 Platinum Combo (Mainboard)
-Hitachi HDT725032VLA380 (big slice of pie, I mean Hard disc)
-GeiL 4 GB DDR2-800 Kit (memory)

Go ahead and tell me that I'm mad, but please do so in a constructive manner.
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby xoqolatl on Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:47 pm

You're mad!

But seriously now:
4GB of ram + Vista64 = teh pwn. Though it would be MUCH better with a Q6600 instead of E8200. I know I may sound a little like a broken record but Q6600 IS most bang for your buck on computer market right now (and has been so for the last half a year at least).
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby RC-1290 on Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:56 am

xoqolatl wrote:You're mad!

But seriously now:
Though it would be MUCH better with a Q6600 instead of E8200.

Going to upgrade it at the end of this year with a nehalem quad core :).
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