New Rig Feedback.

PC related discussion and other issues.

Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby Gary on Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:26 pm

cz_squishy wrote:@Gary On r/BuildaPC that HDD is one of the most recommended ones due to it low cost (well before the flooding) and great performance. Compared to the WD Caviar Black that's supposed to be a better HDD, the Spinpoint F3 is actually faster/better (there's a chart but I forgot where it's at).


Thanks. That sounds great!


zombie@computer wrote:@Gary

why would you use four different os'es? Multi-OSs are annoying. Not only because each new OS fucks up the boot of some others (ie windows doesnt like grub), and XP refuses to get installed past a certain cylinder index, etc. Just use virtualbox or virtualpc to play with them, its not like you should be doing anything else with them, ey?


I was actually considering doing that. But will running programs that have problems with win7/64bit in a VM still cause problems?

I've changed my mind on the Linux distro, as running it in a VM on a ramdisc will do the same and won't require me to reboot.
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby zombie@computer on Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:57 pm

You can use virtual machines to emulate 32bits in a 64 bits surrounding (but not the other way around).

The only problems you may find are with programs that require extensive 3D graphics (though virtualbox does support it, you can actually run hl2 and doom3 and all). Its also a bitch to install windows 95, but who wants to haha.
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby Gary on Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:25 pm

zombie@computer wrote:You can use virtual machines to emulate 32bits in a 64 bits surrounding (but not the other way around).


Cool. There is no longer a need to have more than one OS.


zombie@computer wrote:The only problems you may find are with programs that require extensive 3D graphics (though virtualbox does support it, you can actually run hl2 and doom3 and all). Its also a bitch to install windows 95, but who wants to haha.


Yeah, those aren't the kind of programs that I will be using x86 windows for. Hmm... and WinXP will run much faster in ram...



I just ordered the drive. With 20USD off :D

Apparently, if you visit a newegg product page enough times, it gives you a promo code(I assume because they think your on the edge of buying it).
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby Gary on Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:43 pm

I just got the drive, appears to work. I am just going to wait for Win7 to get here, so I don't have to re-format again.

Here are the speeds Ubuntu's disk utility gave me:
Image
(It's minimums are still 3 times greater than my old HDD's)

I was also greatly disappointed in my thumb drive read speed...
Image
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby joe_rogers_11155 on Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:03 pm

hey guys. I've been using cheap-shit laptops for way too long. I'm in the process of choosing components for my first desktop in AGES. But I need a little help picking out an amazing video card for $200 or less. I've been all over the internet looking at performance benchmarks and charts, pricing diagrams, reviews, etc. This link has been kind of useful, and I'm interested in the AMD CrossFire setup (halfway down the page, and I think it uses 2 video cards) http://compreviews.about.com/od/video/tp/videocards.htm.

Here are the things that are of concern to me...

1. Most importantly, I want to comfortably run 2 monitors simultaneously (Hammer in one screen and the freshly compiled map in another screen). I plan to use some high-quality monitors (no 3D)...does the size or quality of the monitors have much to do with the choosing of a video card?
2. I want to run most current games comfortably without using highest settings or heavy use of AA.
3. I want to avoid a situation where the video card messes up the little numbers in Hammer. I remember hearing that a certain kind of video card makes Hammer look messed up, maybe there is no truth to that.

In order to achieve dual-monitor usage, I am totally willing to get 2 video cards eventually (one at a time). Here is the motherboard I have picked out. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131792

Also I have picked an 800W power supply just in case. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139025 There's no problem with going for a larger power supply right? Or can I drop it down to 700W in order to save some cash?

Thanks for the input!!
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby zombie@computer on Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:19 pm

joe_rogers_11155 wrote:hey guys. I've been using cheap-shit laptops for way too long. I'm in the process of choosing components for my first desktop in AGES. But I need a little help picking out an amazing video card for $200 or less. I've been all over the internet looking at performance benchmarks and charts, pricing diagrams, reviews, etc. This link has been kind of useful, and I'm interested in the AMD CrossFire setup (halfway down the page, and I think it uses 2 video cards) http://compreviews.about.com/od/video/tp/videocards.htm.

Here are the things that are of concern to me...

1. Most importantly, I want to comfortably run 2 monitors simultaneously (Hammer in one screen and the freshly compiled map in another screen). I plan to use some high-quality monitors (no 3D)...does the size or quality of the monitors have much to do with the choosing of a video card?
2. I want to run most current games comfortably without using highest settings or heavy use of AA.
3. I want to avoid a situation where the video card messes up the little numbers in Hammer. I remember hearing that a certain kind of video card makes Hammer look messed up, maybe there is no truth to that.

In order to achieve dual-monitor usage, I am totally willing to get 2 video cards eventually (one at a time). Here is the motherboard I have picked out. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131792

Also I have picked an 800W power supply just in case. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139025 There's no problem with going for a larger power supply right? Or can I drop it down to 700W in order to save some cash?

Thanks for the input!!
The board you picked out has onboard video (well, cpu simulated gpu). Im having a hard time googling the exact performance of said board in 3d graphics, but it may(i absolutely have NO IDEA) just be enough for hammer alone (especially with a fast cpu like the i7-2600). You can then use the other card for hl2 or something. Just a FYI. (To be honest, ive got no idea how well this would work, ive never tried it.)

As for crossfire, im personnally not very keen on dual gpus (this includes SLI). Usually a single card setup is more (energy-)efficient and less prone to problems; The money saved on the second gpu can easliy be saved and used later for an even faster gpu with directX 2000 support. Or not, if in the future you realise hammering while halfliving isnt very usefull anyway :P

as for your questions

1) youll have to actually search very hard to find a grapihcs card that CAN'T handle dualscreen, thats not a problem. However, if you are using screens with high resolution, you may want to invest in a card with at least 1.5-2 gb of video ram. (more mixels = more ram needed, simple as that)
2) i like this site: http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/
Pick out the best card you can afford! I dont think theres any videocard having a problem with any Source title.
3) that was a problem with a certain setting iirc (the videocard basically saw the letters as something that needed anti-aliasing and anti-aliased the hell out of the text). Easy to resolve by disabling AA for hammer. iirc it only happened for a certain range of cards, thats true, but i dont know which. Its not really something you should be worried about

4) Depends on what videocard you pick, and whether or not you want to sli or crossfire later on. More is usually better, but also mind that most powersupplies are most efficient (least heat production because of least conversion losses) in a certain range, usually somewhere in the 80% range). Slight note about corsair though: im hearing more and more problems with 'coil whining' (high pitched iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii) on certain corsair models. Make sure your model doesnt have that.
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby joe_rogers_11155 on Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:32 pm

thanks c@c. i guess you have already gone through a phase where you used dual-monitors to do modding and decided that it wasn't useful? can you tell me about it?

---

for a cpu I picked out an intel i5 with 3.3Ghz. and both the benchmark website and janga recommended this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150563 Having 2GB will be awesome and it can run dual monitors (as you mentioned a need for higher RAM). I'm gonna be getting the extra warranty on it just in case something goes horribly wrong down the line.

So here are the specs for those interested.

CPU: Intel i5 3.3Ghz Quad Core with Intel HD Graphics 3000
GPU: XFX Radeon HD 6870 with 2GB memory
RAM: 8GB Corsair, 2x sticks of 4GB with a big blue heat shield
HDD: 1TB SATA-6 (I guess the higher the SATA number, the faster your hard drive's data transfer?)
PSU: 800W Corsair (I will take a chance on z@c's notice about strange noises)
Mobo: This. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131792 (good, I hope)
Case: This. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146067 (I will add many fans)
Blu-ray player.
12-in-1 media reader.

The whole thing looks like it will cost $1100, and that's after extra warranties and rebates. I will buy it over the course of three paychecks and assemble it in the summer. I can't fucking wait. I just hope my shitty laptop here lives that long.
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby zombie@computer on Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:51 pm

joe_rogers_11155 wrote:thanks c@c. i guess you have already gone through a phase where you used dual-monitors to do modding and decided that it wasn't useful? can you tell me about it?.
Double monitors are great if you are working on multiple documents or document and website and need to drag shit from one window to the other quite often. Or, when you want to watch a video while browsing or coding or mapping or have reference images in one window while working in the other. In the case of 3d editing, multiple monitors are great to expand your horizon. But play - build setups dont work for me. You either build, or play(test). You never do it side by side. Double monitors in that case are just a waste of money.
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby zombie@computer on Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:58 pm

joe_rogers_11155 wrote:for a cpu I picked out an intel i5 with 3.3Ghz. and both the benchmark website and janga recommended this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150563 Having 2GB will be awesome and it can run dual monitors (as you mentioned a need for higher RAM). I'm gonna be getting the extra warranty on it just in case something goes horribly wrong down the line.

So here are the specs for those interested.

CPU: Intel i5 3.3Ghz Quad Core with Intel HD Graphics 3000
GPU: XFX Radeon HD 6870 with 2GB memory
RAM: 8GB Corsair, 2x sticks of 4GB with a big blue heat shield
HDD: 1TB SATA-6 (I guess the higher the SATA number, the faster your hard drive's data transfer?)
PSU: 800W Corsair (I will take a chance on z@c's notice about strange noises)
Mobo: This. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131792 (good, I hope)
Case: This. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146067 (I will add many fans)
Blu-ray player.
12-in-1 media reader.

The whole thing looks like it will cost $1100, and that's after extra warranties and rebates. I will buy it over the course of three paychecks and assemble it in the summer. I can't fucking wait. I just hope my shitty laptop here lives that long.
In case you are interested, you can skimp a lot on the case (it doesnt look that efficient tbh). HDDs nowadays rarely connect with anything else than sata. theres basically old, 3 and 6. For non-SSD disks it barely matters what connects them, the drives cant reach the speeds of the sata connection. For SSD's its a different matter entirely.

If you have money to spare, Get an SSD. Seriously, you'll be urged to pleaure me orally for this advice once you've experienced an ssd (not sure if thats a good way to motivate, but meh). Just a 64 gb crucial is going to make a CRUCIAL (get it?) difference on computing pleasure. No, wait, im gonna turn this around. Building a pc > $1k MUST ALWAYS include an SSD or im gonna call the authoroties on you. Ill tell them you got kiddy porn or something.
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby joe_rogers_11155 on Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:27 am

Alright, alright. I was resisting but the thought of being ratted out on my kiddie porn is too much to bear. I looked around and settled on this SSD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148441 Its the one you recommended, lol. I presume that the motherboard I chose provides a SATA3 cable. It shows cables in the pictures, but not sure which kind. Also, keep in mind that I don't really know how to ensure that the OS ends up on the SSD (not to mention any apps or games I want to put on the SSD for supposed extra speed boost).

As far as the case goes: by efficient, I guess you're talking about the airflow...the cooling ability of the fans. I honestly have looked at several cases and they all appear to have the fan holes in the same places. I don't see how one case can be much more efficient than another, as long as there are a bunch of fans installed to control those open spots that don't come with fans. But I did go look up something cheaper and found this case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147060

I don't mind paying extra for the awesome "Aperture Science" styled case I originally picked out...but which one really provides more efficient air cooling? It looks about the same for me.
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby Dives on Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:31 am

Actually it the case can matter quite a bit.
Look at the charts on this page.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2012/0 ... 0-review/3
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby joe_rogers_11155 on Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:57 am

Thanks Pritchard. I should have come to you sooner. How's that reality TV hacking show coming along?

That site's review for my beloved Phantom case (I call it the "Aperture Science Special Edition") is actually pretty damn good. I'm gonna stick with it.

I think my build list is complete, thanks to you guys. CHEERS. I will be posting assembly pics once the parts roll in.
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby zombie@computer on Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:02 am

joe_rogers_11155 wrote:Alright, alright. I was resisting but the thought of being ratted out on my kiddie porn is too much to bear. I looked around and settled on this SSD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148441 Its the one you recommended, lol. I presume that the motherboard I chose provides a SATA3 cable. It shows cables in the pictures, but not sure which kind. Also, keep in mind that I don't really know how to ensure that the OS ends up on the SSD (not to mention any apps or games I want to put on the SSD for supposed extra speed boost).

As far as the case goes: by efficient, I guess you're talking about the airflow...the cooling ability of the fans. I honestly have looked at several cases and they all appear to have the fan holes in the same places. I don't see how one case can be much more efficient than another, as long as there are a bunch of fans installed to control those open spots that don't come with fans. But I did go look up something cheaper and found this case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147060

I don't mind paying extra for the awesome "Aperture Science" styled case I originally picked out...but which one really provides more efficient air cooling? It looks about the same for me.
When you are about to install Windows, only connect the SSD (use the fastest sata connection available on your board, the 6G one). Make sure you update the SSD's firmware before installing windows (check crucials' site for latest and instructions). Then, make sure you enable AHCI in your bios (else TRIM functions will not work correctly). Windows 7 will automatically detect its an SSD and use the most optimal settings (XP should not be used with SSD's because of that). When installing, windows will try to create a +/- 100mb boot partition. DONT LET IT DO THIS! It has only caused problems for me. Create a partition on the SSD yourself (one partition, obviously) and install windows to that (for instance by temporalily connecting the SSD to an older pc with windows on it). See also this site for properly partitioning ssds for ultimate performace.

Oh, and please dont misunderstand: ssds wont give you extra fps. The speed increase is when starting windows and most programs load instantly instead of with a small delay. I mean... I press my pc's power button, take my mouse from the cradle and windows is 100% online. Normal disks cant do that. Also, you'll never have to defragment an SSD :)

Once windows is installed, connect the other hdd and be happy :) Because SSDs arent very big you are going to want to install most games and all documents and media on the normal disk, but i can assure you 64 gb is enough for windows, office and a shitload of 'normal' (<1gb) programs. I've got windows, office, visual studio, xna game studio, various media programs, steam (excluding gcf collection) and anno2070 on my ssd and its using a little over 40 gigs.
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby joe_rogers_11155 on Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:52 pm

thanks for that info, i will surely be coming back to check it out when i get all the parts in.

me and janga are looking at 2 cards that are very similar. these two.

Card 1. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150563
Card 2. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150521

They are both Radeon HD 6870 cards. But Card 1 has 2GB of onboard memory and a single fan. And Card 2 has 1GB of onboard memory and two fans. They are cloes to the same price point, the 1GB is somewhat cheaper. So the big question is...which card do you think will be better for the kind of work we interlopers do?
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Re: New Rig Feedback.

Postby Jangalomph on Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:47 pm

Yep Im thinking about getting these two right now as they're in my cart:

PSU:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139021
CARD:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150563

I personally play alot of stalker with the HD textures from Cromm Cruac etc. And the more memory I can have the better.
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