White House boasts: We 'control' news media

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Re: White House boasts: We 'control' news media

Postby Simpletool on Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:25 pm

MayheM wrote:Just a side note on Glenn Beck as well. He is Pro American and knows his history. He speaks out against the policies of Obama but also trashes the republicans when they mess up as well. I watched a show the other day where he had an entire audience of black conservatives. The all spoke of how they where looked down upon by other blacks because they where looked at as sellouts. It was an eye opening show.


I want to come back to this because there was a question I left out earlier, a question that I've been itching to ask someone who watches Beck's show.

What do you find so fascinating about a man who's only post high school education consists of a single course in "Early Christology" taken with the assistance of the Eli Whitney Program, and later in his adult life converts to Mormonism?

He has no formal education in politics, economics, law or journalism and has been documented contradicting himself on many occasions. The man isn't qualified to engage in even the lowest hierarchies of American politics.

Why should he be trusted to engage in intellectually honest debate concerning extremely complex and important issues?

Will you also please answer my previous questions?
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Re: White House boasts: We 'control' news media

Postby MayheM on Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:39 pm

Ok lets see where to start...

I respect a man who taught himself and boasts about being a self educated man. In his words "since when does this country look down upon a self made man". Just because he does not have a Harvard education does not mean he is any less of a man or any less intelligent that the President. He did not go to college because he could not afford it. As for having no formal education in politics, well nor did our founding fathers and they created the greatest nation ever established. Also, he is a man who has made mistakes in his life and owned up to them. He admits he is not perfect because he knows no man is. That is a trait that is rarely seen these days. A trait that makes one far more trustworthy than those in Washington.

But to clarify it is not fascination, it is respect. The man teaches history on his show. He lets people know about what great men our founders were. He is passionate about this country and what it was founded upon. He believes and the people who watch him believe in the Republic.

There is no doubt there is corruption in Washington. That corruption in on both sides of the isle. He does not blame one side because he is not on one side. If you think he is, you have not watched the show...

In fact I ask you, have you watched his show? If you have what is it that you find so appalling about what he says?
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Re: White House boasts: We 'control' news media

Postby Dionysos on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:51 am

I get shocked when someone calls a nation that has constantly been in inglorious wars etc the greatest nation ever. Don't mean to say nothing good every came from the US (quite the opposite), but seriously that's not factual at all (but studies can be skewed, right?).

Have you seen the South Park Glenn Beck episode? That's exactly how I view his show. It's as much the way he says things as the content, if he were a muslim people would call it hate-speech. It's all about flashy images and theatre. If someone wants to be taken seriously by me they have to act accordingly.

'

It might be entertaining, but (for me) in a sad way. For instance, he compares the low price level of india to counterfeit brand-products, whereas the price-level in a given country is simply a by-result of the interaction of real income/purchasing power, currency/in-/deflation etc. Ripping on their rivers (tadaa, over population anyone?) isn't something you do when you have actual arguments.
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Re: White House boasts: We 'control' news media

Postby Simpletool on Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:09 am

MayheM wrote:Ok lets see where to start...

I respect a man who taught himself and boasts about being a self educated man. In his words "since when does this country look down upon a self made man". Just because he does not have a Harvard education does not mean he is any less of a man or any less intelligent that the President.


You still haven't explained why you set your trust in a self-described "commentator", "entertainer", and "rodeo clown" for intellectually honest discussions when there exists so many other "self made" men and women with formal education in law, government, and economics. His entire career preceding Fox has been as an inflammatory entertainer and commentator.

MayheM wrote:Also, he is a man who has made mistakes in his life and owned up to them. He admits he is not perfect because he knows no man is. That is a trait that is rarely seen these days. A trait that makes one far more trustworthy than those in Washington.

How does one admitting to past mistakes make them more trustworthy than another individual? There doesn't exist a connection other than the one you invent.

MayheM wrote:As for having no formal education in politics, well nor did our founding fathers and they created the greatest nation ever established.


Jefferson, Adams, Hamilton, Hancock, Madison and many others received and completed formal educations at places like Harvard and Princeton.

Once again you've gone about reinventing history to fit your argument and I fail to understand how you can claim Beck attempts with honesty to educate his viewers on U.S. history when you've demonstrated thus far to lack even the faintest nuances of the realities of the past. Are you so complacent in life that you'd allow a shock jock to mold your view of the world than educate yourself? Every claim you've made can be disproven with a few minutes on a search engine. I think the most depressing part of these discussions is the picture you've painted of yourself and the millions of others whose views have been so obstructed by cynicism and fear that you're effectively conditioned to work against your own benefit.

And yes I have watched his show, far more than I'd like.
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Re: White House boasts: We 'control' news media

Postby MayheM on Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:22 am

You obviously have a different view from me and more power to you, you are entitled to that. I for one trust a man who can own up to his mistakes. Those in the government may be well educated with expensive degrees yet they are screwing over the very people they are elected to represent. I trust him more than the government for reasons like the congress voting on a pay as you go bill and putting it into law and still not following the law they put into place. They are more interested in power and getting more and getting reelected then they are in doing what the people want. Why do you seemingly trust the government so much? Are you not just as complacent to allow the government and special interests to sway your view of the world. Or maybe you do want the country to change. Maybe you are just one of those who has their hand out waiting for the government to give them their free lunch. Maybe not... you have not really stated your view, you have really only questioned mine...

So let me ask you,

Do you think there is corruption in the government or do you honestly think there is nothing wrong?

Are you even the slightest bit concerned about the amount of money being thrown around?

What exactly are your views? Other than apparently the opposite of whatever I have said in the past weeks on every thread?

Are you anything more than an antagonist?

The truth is, I am still learning. I spent a lot of my life with very little involvement in politics. I listen to many politicians and my stomach turns. Something in me does not trust that they are looking out for my best interests. I know the values my parents instilled in me. I have a strong work ethic and believe in working hard for what I get. I believe nothing in life is free. I honestly believe watered down morality is hurting this country. I believe in the rights of people and I believe those rights where given to us by God and not by our government.

But like I said we obviously disagree. That's ok. It is part of what makes this country great. People are free to speak their mind. Except for when Woodrow Wilson was in the Whitehouse and imprisoned those who spoke out in opposition to his war "WWI".
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Re: White House boasts: We 'control' news media

Postby Dionysos on Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:04 am

You seem to paint everything in black and white. He didn't say anything about the government, and just because one doesn't like Beck does not mean one likes the government or the system or whatever. It's not either or. The point was merely whether Beck was someone to "trust". Just because someone owns up/admits their mistakes doesn't earn my trust, especially not if he still behaves like a clown, a point which was again ignored. It's nothing but dissembling...
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Re: White House boasts: We 'control' news media

Postby MayheM on Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:22 am

I don't mean to paint it black and white... And sure Beck acts up, but he is calm more then he is like the clip you showed above. Sure he is passionate about his beliefs, and no one should have a problem about that. My values and my beliefs are the ones he talks about on the show. God and family are the most important things in my life. And i do believe this country is the greatest nation ever established. I am not saying we have not made mistakes of the years because we have. But seldom does a nation as powerful as we have been stand for what is right rather than invade and control and take others rights. We have deviated from that in the past decade. We should not be the world police and responsible for saving everyone.

In my defense I spend almost every day around people who assume everyone around them is a liberal and like minded. I hear my beliefs bashed daily. I heard one music teacher tell a group of other teachers he found out one of his students was a republican and he was trying to decide if he should kick him out of the school orchestra. Granted I am sure he meant it in jest, but is that even something to laugh about? We are all entitled to our own opinions. Mine line up pretty well with Glenn Becks. Not on everything, but enough to keep me watching. I have learned not to trust those who point the finger of blame at the other party and refuse to take blame ownership themselves. That is why I am pissed at both parties. The Democrats point fingers and say everything is Bush's fault, but the last two years of Bush's second term the Dems had control over the house and Senate and that is when the economy started to tank. The Republicans blame the Dems for all the spending while they themselves helped Bush overspend. I am not saying either one side is to blame I am saying both are to blame.

But to get back to the original topic of the thread. Lets take a look at Senator Bunning. This week he stood up and blocked the jobs bill. He was hounded by the media asking why he was blocking it. He was simply asking congress to follow a law they enacted and to be sure it is paid for and not lumped onto the debt. The congress passed the "Pay Go" bill not to long ago and since passing it had not followed it. He stood up and held them to it. Finally someone got the politicians to do what they said they would do. Now I do not know if Bunning is a stand up guy, this is actually the fist time i have heard of him. What I do know is what he did was right and the media demonized him for it. The media is bias and are trying to help further the agenda of one specific party. They will hold back some stories and focus on others. In many cases those stories paint those who oppose Obama and his ideas as the bad guy, and they focus as little as they can on the corruption those who support Obama are involved in. just looks the the health care bills special interest provisions. Cornhusker Kickback:In exchange for Nelson's vote on the $871 billion health bill -- the key 60th vote needed to overcome unanimous Republican opposition -- Democratic leaders guaranteed the federal government would pay the full price of expanded Medicaid coverage in Nebraska.I asked a room of people what they thought about that a week after I heard about it on Fox. Not a single person heard about it. They all read the new your post, the Local San Francisco Paper, watch MSNBC, and CNN and not a single one of those sources picked up on that story? Is that even the slightest bit odd you you guys? In my opinion that is front page freaking news. It should be everywhere!!! The mainstream media is seemingly working for the current administration. I am not saying all reporters who work for those places are bad. I am sure there are some who do not tow the party line. But like the education system, the majority of people in the media are liberals. And even when something the left does is wrong, they just overlook it because the other guy is the bad guy...
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Re: White House boasts: We 'control' news media

Postby Noodles on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:22 pm

Mayhem, I can't comment on American politics here as I simply don't understand it well enough. But anything I've ever seen Glenn Beck commentate on that I have understood, there is always one factor.

He talks out of his arse.

The problem is that news broadcasting in America is frankly awful, because it is generally biased. Look at, if I may, the shining exemplar that is the BBC. The BBC uses sourced information, expert insight and neutrality. The anchors are not there to comment on the stories with their own opinions, they are there to tell the facts. Whereas all too often on American news broadcasts the anchors will tell you their take on the story, and Glenn Beck is such an anchor.

It loses all quality and becomes no more a news show than say, Bill Maher's show is a news show. Or Jay Leno.
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Re: White House boasts: We 'control' news media

Postby magoc on Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:08 pm

To me it always seems to be the "fault" of the two party system which really makes everything black and white. It leaves little room for expressing nuances in ones opinion and to both sides there's only one "enemy" to fight. If you are Rep Dems will place you on the far left and vice versa. Generalization is just easy and a convenient tool to help in ones argument.

Media is always coloured, and commercial media even more so. There's just too much at stake for them (sponsors, viewers, competition) to be able to bring un-sensationalized news. Is there a public news broadcaster in the US? Because to me that would seem to be something to strive for. People (I mean MayheM :P) will probably argue that public broadcasting is more controlled, but it is more controlled by both sides of the fence in the sense that it can never sway to one side too much.
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Re: White House boasts: We 'control' news media

Postby Dionysos on Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:08 am

Ah, finally get the time to go back to this.

MayheM wrote:I don't mean to paint it black and white... And sure Beck acts up, but he is calm more then he is like the clip you showed above. Sure he is passionate about his beliefs, and no one should have a problem about that. My values and my beliefs are the ones he talks about on the show. God and family are the most important things in my life. And i do believe this country is the greatest nation ever established. I am not saying we have not made mistakes of the years because we have. But seldom does a nation as powerful as we have been stand for what is right rather than invade and control and take others rights. We have deviated from that in the past decade. We should not be the world police and responsible for saving everyone.


Well, first off, I don't think anyone disagrees that being passionate about your beliefs is a good thing. What people disagree with are mostly his arguments, and even though passion is good, going crazy is something else and shouldn't be alright in serious, factual debate etc. I don't think what the US has ever acted as anything else than the world police (going back as far as the spanish american war and "liberating" the philippines), but that's off topic and begging for a flame war. I applaud you for not advocating that stance though.

MayheM wrote:In my defense I spend almost every day around people who assume everyone around them is a liberal and like minded. I hear my beliefs bashed daily. I heard one music teacher tell a group of other teachers he found out one of his students was a republican and he was trying to decide if he should kick him out of the school orchestra. Granted I am sure he meant it in jest, but is that even something to laugh about? We are all entitled to our own opinions. Mine line up pretty well with Glenn Becks. Not on everything, but enough to keep me watching. I have learned not to trust those who point the finger of blame at the other party and refuse to take blame ownership themselves. That is why I am pissed at both parties. The Democrats point fingers and say everything is Bush's fault, but the last two years of Bush's second term the Dems had control over the house and Senate and that is when the economy started to tank. The Republicans blame the Dems for all the spending while they themselves helped Bush overspend. I am not saying either one side is to blame I am saying both are to blame.


I agree; everyone should take blame where it's due, no one is above the law or rightful criticism. My problem with Fox news or for instance Glenn Beck is that they claim things which are contradictory and seem intentionally misleading and those things not being questioned, regardless whether you agree with they opinions or not. Feeling the government should do this or that is alright, but when you make a baseless assumptions all the time in the name of serious journalism or debate, you disqualify yourself from that debate. Glenn Beck and Fox News in general do that continuously, and there are many examples.

MayheM wrote:But to get back to the original topic of the thread. Lets take a look at Senator Bunning. This week he stood up and blocked the jobs bill. He was hounded by the media asking why he was blocking it. He was simply asking congress to follow a law they enacted and to be sure it is paid for and not lumped onto the debt. The congress passed the "Pay Go" bill not to long ago and since passing it had not followed it. He stood up and held them to it. Finally someone got the politicians to do what they said they would do. Now I do not know if Bunning is a stand up guy, this is actually the fist time i have heard of him. What I do know is what he did was right and the media demonized him for it.


Just a quick note on that specific thing, and how I perceived it. I think it's a bullshit move to cut unemployed benefits after just 30 days of unemployment. I agree that balancing the budget is important, but rather on a larger scale than this. If those people don't get to find a new job within those 30 days, they're fucked and maybe homeless. Then they are even less likely to get a job, which again weakens the economy, and in a recession! It's like saying "we haven't yet balanced the budget so unfortunately we can no longer finance the street lights during the night" (or insert some other vital thing payed for by taxes). This bill had been drafted by reps and dems, and he was the only one against it. Then he complained that he didn't get to go home to watch his sports game on time. Silly unlucky people, poor him. This was an acute issue, and though I agree about having to balance the budget, is simply too important to dwell on.
About the response in the media, see below.

MayheM wrote: The media is bias and are trying to help further the agenda of one specific party. They will hold back some stories and focus on others. In many cases those stories paint those who oppose Obama and his ideas as the bad guy, and they focus as little as they can on the corruption those who support Obama are involved in. just looks the the health care bills special interest provisions. Cornhusker Kickback:In exchange for Nelson's vote on the $871 billion health bill -- the key 60th vote needed to overcome unanimous Republican opposition -- Democratic leaders guaranteed the federal government would pay the full price of expanded Medicaid coverage in Nebraska.I asked a room of people what they thought about that a week after I heard about it on Fox. Not a single person heard about it. They all read the new your post, the Local San Francisco Paper, watch MSNBC, and CNN and not a single one of those sources picked up on that story? Is that even the slightest bit odd you you guys? In my opinion that is front page freaking news. It should be everywhere!!! The mainstream media is seemingly working for the current administration. I am not saying all reporters who work for those places are bad. I am sure there are some who do not tow the party line. But like the education system, the majority of people in the media are liberals. And even when something the left does is wrong, they just overlook it because the other guy is the bad guy...


Yes, the media is biased, and this seems to increase in all western countries and I hate it. But this is more so the case of Fox news than the liberal side of the media; they state less facts (for instance the Obama q&a was cut short when they apparently noticed he refuted several claims their network had made over time). I don't think you can trust any network anymore, not blindly. Sure, those networks you cited are biased to the left, and they are mainstream. I would not confine myself (or watch them at all) to them. However, Fox is bigger. More people trust Fox. And they are biased too, if not more so. It makes me cringe, honestly, because I think people should question everything, especially if they happen to agree with what they are hearing, because your opinions may be used to exploit you.

I respect you, really I do, and I don't mean to talk down or anything. But I think you should research more of what for instance Glenn Beck says. Sometimes, he makes me cringe. He is against public spending, but saying he educated himself in a public library. Or how progressivism is apparently always bad, but that "movement" is what lead to public libraries. Or equating communism to evolution(presenting it as some sort of virus)... it's hate mongering and empty catch phrases, and that can be logically elaborated. Nothing is per se evil, and nothing as general as "progressivism" (which strives for betterment and change) or conservatism (which strives for conserving what is good?) is evil in itself. People who claim these things and make errors such as these, cannot be deemed competent.

In this day and age it becomes ever more important to use as many sources as possible to inform yourself, and check up on the logic and objectivity of those sources.
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Re: White House boasts: We 'control' news media

Postby Dionysos on Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:54 am

They sure tried to control this:



It's pretty obvious that governments want to control any negative publicity, but it goes to show that you should never take innocence for granted and always push for transparency.
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Re: White House boasts: We 'control' news media

Postby Zabiela on Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:55 am

Really- Glenn Beck is the discussion?
:smt021




Dionysos wrote:It's pretty obvious that governments want to control any negative publicity, but it goes to show that you should never take innocence for granted and always push for transparency.


You know what is more alarming to me than the fact that we (US) kill civilians?

Its more alarming that almost half of us seemingly have no issue with this video. It comes as no surprise to some Americans, who think that killing civilians is an integral part of war, and that there is nothing to be alarmed about.

Im basing this mostly off of youtube comments and thread posts, but its still alarming some people are like "YEAH WAR SUCKS, EAT LEAD TERRORISTS"

Someone pointed out the ROE were followed- but that just makes it obvious our ROE are severely flawed- press cameras are now RPGs and AK47s, and a dozen civilians are dead.
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Re: White House boasts: We 'control' news media

Postby Dionysos on Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:05 am

Zabiela wrote:...
Someone pointed out the ROE were followed- but that just makes it obvious our ROE are severely flawed- press cameras are now RPGs and AK47s, and a dozen civilians are dead.


Imo they didn't follow the ROE, they were not a threat and they were not attacked or acting under self-defense (ROE on collateralmurder.com). It is debatable whether the peeking around the corner with the camera can be judged a thread, considering the effective range of an RPG (not to mention the shape etc of a real one). Regardless, the shooting of the Van certainly is just plain ludicrous.

On-topic, it still scares me a little how accepted this kind of thing is, and I do wonder what would've been the case if the video came from a russian Hind in Chechnya or something.
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Re: White House boasts: We 'control' news media

Postby polycruncher on Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:50 pm

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304364904575166581279549318.html
What Your TV Is Telling You to Do
NBC Universal's Shows Are Sending Viewers Signals to Recycle, Exercise and Eat Right. Why?

http://www.kboi2.com/news/national/39162862.html
AP: Pentagon spends billions on PR
WASHINGTON (AP) - As it fights two wars, the Pentagon is steadily and dramatically increasing the money it spends to win what it calls "the human terrain" of world public opinion. In the process, it is raising concerns of spreading propaganda at home in violation of federal law.
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Re: White House boasts: We 'control' news media

Postby coder0xff on Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:57 am

Zabiela wrote:Its more alarming that almost half of us seemingly have no issue with this video.


I didn't watch it. I know it's terrible from what I've read. And I don't care about it. There is no point.
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