Mr Happy, you are a goddamn genius with Hammer editor, but this must be the most absolute wrong thing you have written in your life. I would argue the exact opposite of nearly EVERY point you made.
Mr. Happy wrote:I stand by what I say about the Unreal Engine being no more powerful than Source. Technically it can render more polygons and a few more complex shaders, but unreal models have more polygons than you can even see!
Unreal engine is not just more powerful by brute force, it is superior
in nearly every aspect of its workflow. The way it stores assets, the way it handles lighting, the intuitive nature of materials, the scope of what you can do. Unreal models don't have insane polycounts by any standard. Most unreal models could be brought into source. They would just loose alot of detail from the materials.
Mr. Happy wrote:I don't like the modular nature of unreal tech either... The brush based system in Source for blocky detail is simply more efficient when it comes to texture use and workflow!!
Learn to model. The best looking source stuff is model heavy, and the same goes for unreal. I'll admit, making and using bsp brushes in source is easier on many levels, but bsp brushes should only ever be the foundation of a level, not the brick and mortar. The modular nature of unreal mapping is entirely optional, but there's a reason its the done thing - its fast, it cuts down on a ton of work, and it doesn't compromise on quality.
Mr. Happy wrote:It's true I need more experience in UnrealED to make a fair comparison, but the problem is that there isn't a single fun game with an SDK on unreal ed!! (except Roboblitz) Maybe bulletstorm will have an SDK since it's being made by People Can Fly.
This is true, you do need more time with it, and there's nothing for single player games quite like Half Life 2 in UDK, but if you're working on a mod, or just a good looking environment, there's no reason not to use UDK.
This is the dumbest thing I ever read. (I kid!) the guy leading NS2 is actually an Engine Coder, making games engines was his job long before he began NS2. He was able to look at all the hoops they would have to jump through in source to get an aproximation of what they wanted, and knew that NS2 would not happen in source
. Also NS is the greatest game ever
Mr. Happy wrote:I've never looked at a commercial license of the source engine nor talked to anyone who had one so I really don't know what it includes, but I assume that there are better workflow/asset stream/whatever tools. And like I said, there are tons of third party tools that solve 90% of those complaints.
probably, and yeah there are a ton of fantastic community plugins... but with UDK, you don't need
a ton of plugins to do the simplest task. It just works.
THIS IS WHERE YOU REALLY LOOSE IT
Mr. Happy wrote:I don't know if there's anythingUnreal's node based material editor is nice, but with 90% of textures it's still faster to write a simple vmt than to use any editor. My workflow goes like this: save from photoshop as vtf (with nem's plugin), open notepad, type a few lines, save. All in all it takes 2-5 minutes per texture. Of course it would be nice to have tools to make batch changes to 100 vmt's at once, but I've only needed to do that for a couple projects, and there are third party tools. As for models, I've only compiled a few prop_static's without any special requirements but I just use the same basic QC over and over again, just need to make a few changes for each model's name! And there are qui wrappers too, and iirc you can use wildcards and automate it with batch files.
I know this is a wall of text, so I wanted to point this bit out. Because this is why source sucks. I love it but it sucks, because it is insane. Heres my workfrow for making a texture in UDK: save from photoshop as just about whatever I want. open it in UDK. done. thats it. I dont export, download a plugin, write out vmt's, get lost trying to find location errors, have to put things in valves INSANE file structure... it. just. fucking. works. You want a normal map on that? open the normal map, and click drag from the normal map to the texture in node view. Please don't tell me typing a vmt is quicker than click dragging, that's a lie.
I made a model today, and stuck it in unreal. I just saved as an .ase, and opened it in UDK. I changed the model in 3ds max to make it better, went in UDK, and clicked on the 'reimport model' option and it updated automatically to my new save. Because everything is so quick and easy, I can keep going back and forth changing things willy nilly and I never even have to run the fucking game. UDK shows all this crazy magical happiness in the editor viewport.
Mr. Happy wrote:Of course the SDK could be better, but it is not tedius, difficult, or behind the times. All one needs is a little knowledge and a few third-party tools!!!
Source is incredibly
tedious, its is amazingly
convoluted and it is years
behind the times. You need 'a little' knowledge of outdated plugins tools and nonsense file structres to even get somethign close to a workflow. You're only problem (and its less of a problem and more skill!) Is that you are so aware of the ins and outs of source, you don't notice them.
I used source for years, I fell in love with mapping using hammer for Half-Life 1. I bought UT3 special edition to get all the video tutorials and learn the editor... but I never did, because I had source and its great. Source is the partner that kept beating me and I would keep coming back and tell my friends I walked into a door or something. And when I got to grips with UDK, I felt like I wasted years. I had this conversation with a friend and we both said the same thing - why did we stick with source when Unreal was right there? Even when UDK came out?
Don't make my mistakes. Try UDK today.ps. I didnt ever mean to sound harsh, but to be fair you did diss Natural selection so c'mon man your asking for it!