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Postby Saxon on Tue May 10, 2011 9:33 am

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Re: The "Slut" movement

Postby ad_hominem on Tue May 10, 2011 10:26 am

I think what the policeman said was utterly ridiculous. His words imply that men are so incapable of self-restraint that should they see some cleavage, they will lose control. Obviously wearing provocative clothing will elicit a response - that is what it is intended to do. However, there's a world of difference between wanting attention from the opposite sex, and being somehow complicit in a sexual assault against yourself.

I don't particularly find the 'slut' look attractive, but I understand that women think that many men do, and they dress in that manner to make themselves feel good. To say that by dressing this way lessens the responsibility of the man who tries to rape them is, I think, abhorrent. Have we so given up on self-restraint that we need to stop other people wearing revealing clothing in order to keep ourselves from trying to rape them?
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Re: The "Slut" movement

Postby SotaPoika on Tue May 10, 2011 10:36 am

ad_hominem wrote:I think what the policeman said was utterly ridiculous. His words imply that men are so incapable of self-restraint that should they see some cleavage, they will lose control. Obviously wearing provocative clothing will elicit a response - that is what it is intended to do. However, there's a world of difference between wanting attention from the opposite sex, and being somehow complicit in a sexual assault against yourself.

I don't particularly find the 'slut' look attractive, but I understand that women think that many men do, and they dress in that manner to make themselves feel good. To say that by dressing this way lessens the responsibility of the man who tries to rape them is, I think, abhorrent. Have we so given up on self-restraint that we need to stop other people wearing revealing clothing in order to keep ourselves from trying to rape them?


I fully agree with you. You're not allowed to touch someone else without his/her permission, it's just ridiculous how some men think "slutty" dressing is giving that permission.
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Re: The "Slut" movement

Postby Saxon on Tue May 10, 2011 11:15 am

ad_hominem wrote:To say that by dressing this way lessens the responsibility of the man who tries to rape them is, I think, abhorrent.

I completely agree, I don't think it lowers a man's responsibility in any way. But I do think women who dress like that are stupid if they don't expect to get unwanted attention, it's a guaranteed way of drawing all the creeps and perverts towards them.
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Re: The "Slut" movement

Postby zombie@computer on Tue May 10, 2011 12:05 pm

people shouldnt be inclined to steal my stereo when i keep my door unlocked, but they still do. In some cases, the stuff you wear, may entice wrong behaviour, and, therefor, it is wise to avoid such things. Not to say that it is part of teh problem, but avoiding it may just be part of the solution.
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Re: The "Slut" movement

Postby ShinobiWan on Tue May 10, 2011 1:26 pm

Without sluts this country's infrastructure would cripple inward on itself, stupid anti-slut Canadians. Hes probably just mad because if his country's women dressed provocatively they would look like half naked lumberjacks.

I agree to an extent though, some women should tone that shit down. Whether or not they're getting raped is a different story, self restraint is the biggest issue at play here.
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Re: The "Slut" movement

Postby Text_Fish on Tue May 10, 2011 7:48 pm

That policeman should probably lose his job, or at least be relegated to a deskjob where his retarded view of the world can't do any harm.

"Slut" is a subjective term. There was a time in the Western world where simply flashing a bit of ankle would have been considered slutty. The women who did that and the women who are percieved as dressing like "sluts" today have every right to do so and that right should be upheld by representatives of the law, who in turn need to be out catching the very rapists they're harmfully excusing.
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Re: The "Slut" movement

Postby Mr. Happy on Tue May 10, 2011 8:53 pm

There's no excuse for violence towards anyone.
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Re: The "Slut" movement

Postby MayheM on Tue May 10, 2011 8:56 pm

It is commonly known that rape is not a sexual crime in it's motive. It is about power and control more than anything. At least psychically speaking. However, what he is saying could come into play when considering date rape. When a woman dresses more provocatively it is could be considered by some as them being easy. Not to say the assumption is correct, but stereotypically speaking... you get my point. I do not think he was trying to be controversial. I think he was expressing concern and there is nothing wrong with that. Should he have chosen a better way of putting it, yes... but there is nothing wrong with someone in his position giving young women advice according to what he has witnessed in his profession.

I agree "slut" is a subjective. However we can all recognize provocative dress. Regardless of whether it is right or wrong, generally speaking, society still sees woman who dress provocatively and do not show them as much respect. Two woman walk into a room one dressing a business suit while the other is dressed in a mini skirt, fishnets and a strapless top with her tits hanging out. Who is more likely to be treated with more respect? Keep you smart ass answers to a minimum please. The one in the suit could be an airhead while the other woman could be a genius, but typically speaking people will take the woman in the suit more seriously.
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Re: The "Slut" movement

Postby Terr on Tue May 10, 2011 11:04 pm

IMO it's a bit like putting lots of jewelry and electronics in front of your windows when you lock up and leave your house.

Whoever robs you is still a criminal, and "they put expensive stuff in my face" is absolutely no excuse. ... But it's still not a great idea on the part of the homeowner.
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Re: The "Slut" movement

Postby RefaelBA on Tue May 10, 2011 11:26 pm

A good deal of sex crimes comes from psychological problems (of the aggressor). I don't know if it has a lot to do with how the girls are dressed actually. A girl has the right to dress sexy, and sure if she shows more skin then more people will stare and perhaps make comments. But to rape someone is a different story, and sadly the common thing to rape victims is just bad luck, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, not provocative clothes.
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Re: The "Slut" movement

Postby kkirspel on Wed May 11, 2011 12:15 am

The inspiration as to why I'm here: Adam Foster; Minerva. Great job man.
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Re: The "Slut" movement

Postby Simpletool on Wed May 11, 2011 2:30 am

I was going to quote a few of you and pick apart all the stupid bullshit but I found it would be way less time consuming to just write a couple paragraphs.

I'm going to assume by everyone's responses here that you are all males. There very nature of having a penis between your legs affords you a lot of privileges.

-Do you walk to your car at night worried you're going to be attacked or raped?
-Do you worry people assume you were promoted because you gave sexual favors to your boss?
-Do you feel intimidated every time you purchase contraceptives or condoms?
-Do you worry you'll be blamed if you're attacked at a friend's party while drinking?
-Do you experience a flood of harassment online because of your gender?
-Do you worry people will assume you're a slut for wearing a tank top or skirt in public?
-Do you worry people will assume your less intelligent or competent in the workplace because of your gender?
-Have withheld information about your sexual conquests because people might assume you're a slut?
-Have you ever worried about how your gender is portrayed in the media?

These represent a fraction of the bullshit a woman has to face every day of their life beginning with puberty. Things that fortunately for men are of no concern. Your mistakes, your failures, your weaknesses do not reflect your gender as a whole, you can go through life and feel certain that as a victim you won't bear the blame if another person violates or attacks you. This is a privilege that is not afforded to the female gender. No matter what a woman is wearing in no way does she bear ANY responsibility when another person attacks or rapes her. As a civilized society it's our responsibility to ensure the safety of every person no matter what they may be wearing or where they may be. Putting the victim in a position of questioning is a misdirection and a failure on our part to address the real issue of why these attacks occur.

The question should not be "what was she wearing" but "why did this attack occur and what can we do to prevent it again"?



Edit: I read through everyone's posts again and I think ad_hominem put it best when he said...

ad_hominem wrote:Have we so given up on self-restraint that we need to stop other people wearing revealing clothing in order to keep ourselves from trying to rape them?


It's a shifting of responsibility from the man (in this case the attacker) to the woman (the victim), and it occurs because in most cultures/societies a woman's actions are scrutinized much more harshly for the very fact that she is a woman. This occurs because quite simply most positions of power on this planet are held by men, and when there is a failing within our own group we look for ways to misdirect responsibility.
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Re: The "Slut" movement

Postby [frank] on Wed May 11, 2011 4:52 am

People keep saying rape.

The cop said victimised.

I sure as hell have been victimised (as a man) in the past, but I haven't been raped.

Hows about we stop extrapolating something that quite possibly is not even the intent.

@simpletool: Men have a lot of other issues on their plate. You can't go "Here is a list of things women face, men don't face them, so women are obviously worse off and can therefore be excused".

Using the whole rape idea, going out at night is definitely stressful for women, but it is so too for men. Men being assaulted at night is, I am sure, more common than women being raped. Being punched in the face obviously isn't the same as being raped, but it sure as hell isn't something that can be brushed away, and is definitely a huge fear to many people.

Or, we go with this career and social expectations. Men are expected to be bread winners, have a successful career. Sure, sexual favours or how you dress, barely comes into it (other than appropriate attire, which is purely what women too should wear, but I won't start the appropriate debate), but you still have the same stress of pursuit and social pressure.

Have you ever seen how men are portrayed in media? Either as uber-masculine muscle men, rich business (and/or smart) men, or a combination of fat, greasy, ugly, "poor" men. Try and fit that.

I'm not trying to remove the horror of rape, or the issues women face, but to lessen them as a crutch for an argument, when many similar issues are faced by men. And I am definitely not trying to pardon any rapists.
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Re: The "Slut" movement

Postby jgoodroad on Wed May 11, 2011 4:56 am

I am not implying anything in particular, but this post reminded me a a semi-funny video I saw once a very long time ago...

===[]"

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