Lake 17

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Lake 17

Postby shapesform on Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:14 pm

Lake 17 is a single player level I have been working on for a few months now, you can read a bit about it here

Requires HL2: Ep01
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Last edited by shapesform on Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Lake 17

Postby Spas12 on Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:26 pm

Looks good bu the download doesn't work.
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Re: Lake 17

Postby waisted menkey on Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:47 pm

looks neato! wish i had ep1 to check it out with
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Re: Lake 17

Postby shapesform on Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:57 pm

sorry, fixed.
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Re: Lake 17

Postby Spas12 on Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:21 pm

ok, i got a lot to say.

This mod both visually looks good in some places, and looks like utter crap in others. The house that you start in was basically just a bunch of rooms with random textures and models. I managed to get back behind the sniper without even killing him first, bad. And i died 4 times in the first area forcing me to begin right back where you first spawn, which was very annoying. The 100 ft drop sewer did not only look horrible, but i didn't even see the exit the first time i went down there. I had to noclip around just to see where the exit was. the gravity gun placements didn't make sense, why would the gravity gun be all alone in a sewer? try adding some dead rebels or some crates to make it look for appropriate. In the street level the amount of combine grouped together was hilarious, one grenade and they were all out. Please spread them out more and make them have more cover. The mix of textures for all the buildings looked a bit more futuristic, which was nice, but it sometimes looks cluttered. Finally, the last gman scene was weak, i didn't know what his purpose there was.

Gameplay was rather ok but it was just some of the tiny and visual things that were a letdown.
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Re: Lake 17

Postby Mephasto on Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:26 pm

ill give it a try after you fix those what spas mentioned.
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Re: Lake 17

Postby shapesform on Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:32 pm

yeah i added in the gman thing for a joke.. as for the 100 ft drop, i dont know how you could not manage to find the exit after it, it was right at the waters surface level so it would have been one of the first things you would have seen... as it for it looking like crap, well its a 100ft drop, it ends in half a second, why waste resources? the flashlight was made for a reason. the gravity gun placed without boxes to accompany it was my fault, i am sorry. The combine grouped together at the end was done intentionally, i felt one last explosion of bodies was in order, and the more the merrier they say. I'm not really sure what you mean by cluttered textures but i do appreciate the criticism.
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Re: Lake 17

Postby shapesform on Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:57 pm

oh and as for being able to get behind the sniper, its not that bad seeing as you have to go back the way you came once the strider sequence is enabled :wink: i guess one way or another your going to have to either kill him, or let him kill you.

EDIT: and about you having to start from the beginning after being killed, i guess the answer to that would be that quicksave function (default f6).

player_loadsaved was included so you should have no problem picking up where you left off.
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Re: Lake 17

Postby Pink Panther on Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:12 am

Well, where to begin...

The beginning sequence as Spas12 said, was a bunch of cluttered rooms packed to the brim with random props. The rebel telling me to get in the basement did not help the situation, as I kept running around trying all of the doors (which more often than not blocked a hallway) to find the basement. Anyhow, it only occurred to me only after I got outside and did not heed the advice to stay in the house that I was already IN the basement; so that dialogue was not helpful or intuitive. After I got outside, there was some random pack of Soldiers standing around doing soldierly things with no apparent urgency or command to charge the house like I assumed they would. The manhacks were annoying, and the sniper placement even more so. After dying the first time from an invisible sniper I tried again, made it around to the back of his make-shift broken cargo container and found a HUGE pile of RPG ammo and an RPG. I killed the sniper at point blank range leaving me with 7 health and I was quickly finished off from a strider.

My third try (by this point I'm becoming rather annoyed) I say to hell with the sniper and head for the tunnel. I don't know what you were thinking when you layed this out, but the pacing is practically non-existent, and the small bits that do exist are so illogical I had a hard time believing I hadn't broken something. I then find a conveniently placed hole in the concrete and underneath is sheet metal. SHEET METAL. From here on the level design did a 180 and continued to speed down bullshit blvd. I am now traveling through some giant square rusted metal rooms with a ton of large wooden crates and poison headcrabs stacked on top of each other which looked more funny than atmospheric. After I emerge from these strange square sewer pipes, I find a giant underground reservoir with a chainlink catwalk above my head. The catwalk has no doors on either side, and there are lasers in this canal. LASERS. Dr. Evil might like that, but I did not. Why are there lasers in a sewer? This seemed to me like a poor attempt at reasoning just so you could throw in something that you learned. After several tries of jumping on very conveniently placed pipes (seriously, player clip those next time because the prop collision in the situation you used them in was incredibly annoying) I then dodge two sets of lasers to walk accross another set of pipes with two barnacles above. I dispatch the barnacles and make it to the other side when suddenly I am having my feet eaten by an invisible trio of magic barnacles. I shoot at my feet in a panic and now find myself with 35 hp less than I had before.

I dodge the lasers again (they run the entire width of the canal, why they do is beyond me) and then turn a very un-assuming wheel and the water starts to rise. I can't remember exactly what happens next, but I do remember some more square sewer pipes made of rusty metal and headcrab triplets and one atrocious physics puzzle right after I pick up a randomly placed gravity gun underneath a sheet of plywood. Seriously, never ever EVER make a physics puzzle where you must stack/jump on top of barrels. For that matter, don't use barrels for physics puzzles period. They fall over too easily, and are always more frustrating than using boxes. After being so fed up with my four barrels I just noclipped into the ceiling that I assumed I was to go to and now I am suddenly in a city with giant piles of leaves, broken vehicles, combine soldiers, and more rockets. The music starts to play, and I aid two rebels standing dangerously close to an 8 story ledge dispatch the pile of combine soldiers below. I then fall several feet injuring myself and am then faced with a gunship. I have so many rockets at my disposal I might as well have just found a tent and camped the street for the rest of the week. I don't know if this magical city that sits above square sewer pipes is a factory of RPG's but there were so many just sitting there on the street it was hard not to laugh. I then destroy the gunship and press onward with the music still playing. I come around a corner and see a MOB of Metropolice standing in a huddle that would make most football teams envious. I fire a single rocket into the giant cluster and they all go flying. To make things even more strange another layer of music plays over the one that was playing before. So I am now listening to some terrible remix of Ravenholm Reprise and What kind of Hospital is this. Just to make sure I've blown up enough combine, two or three squads of soldiers rappel from the rooftops and are quickly killed in the same manner as their Metropolice cousins. After the music dies, I am left wondering what I'm supposed to do. I go searching for a door and find one. Behind a destroyed tanker. I open it expecting some apartment fighting, and guess what I find. A brick wall.

I then attempt to escape from my corner while pinned in by a tanker and barely make it out. I then go back to the wall of APCs and find a door floating 4 feet above the street. I open it walk in, see the Gman and the credits roll giving me six hours to live.

From a mapping perspective, visually anyhow, part of the map is decent and the rest is so lazy and sloppy it isn't worth mentioning. The pacing as I said, was chaotic and practically non-existant with no significant hints or suggestions as to where I should be going or even what I'm doing. The puzzles were so random or out of place, or all around annoying that they also need a desperate overhaul. The enemy placement needs to be thought out (clusters of metrocops and invisible floor barnacles come to mind) and more flush with the level. The music should not overlap, and the citizens should be more than cannon fodder or useless advice givers. Don't stuff your map with props in an effort to cover up bad brushwork. If you don't like where the level is going, think it over. Is it fun? Does it make sense while retaining that fun? Will this add something memorable to the map? If yes, keep it and make it smooth and enjoyable. If no, get rid of it and start over or put something else in its place. Don't put your doors above the floor or on a ledge without stairs or a catwalk/raised curb. Don't overlap in consistency with usable and unusable objects. Give the players more direction and backstory, not just '7 hour war, you are at generic lake named after a generic city. GO!' . Also, your next map needs reasoning. No more doors with brick walls or huge piles of RPG rounds.

Anyways, that's my C&C, hopefully I wasn't too rough or impolite.
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Re: Lake 17

Postby shapesform on Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:54 am

the sheet metal is used to block the sewer from being entered until the strider sequence is initiated, which then triggers it to break.

the house at the beginning is based off the house I live in, and is meant for you to take aid in from the
sniper, soldiers, and manhacks. saying it is a series of cluttered rooms with props scattered about is pointing out the obvious, NPCs were not added inside the house to keep the framerate down. There is one NPC in the house and that is meant to be the person you were married to before the invasion. Small amounts of the story are available on the website, but like i said the story will be explained more thoroughly in chapter 2. In the meantime you will have to let your imagination do the work......

as for the sniper all you must do is shoot the explosive barrels located EVERYWHERE AROUND HIM.

the random pack of soldiers were dropped off from a drop ship and they position themselves infront of the house ready to assualt.

the rpg ammo in the town is meant to come from the broken and unbroken boxes located around the ammunition. pretty simple if you think about it, no theres no RPG factory........

the barrels were not meant to be used for that puzzle but good effort anyway.

as for the lasers, who cares ive seen crazier things in games, if i want to add lazers to a sewer who are you to call it stupid?

the pipes take 10 seconds tops to climb ontop of at most, tricky but hardly worth complaining over.

the barnacles in the ground were added by accident one day and i found it annoying when i stepped on it, i figured i would leave it there to see who else i could annoy. Seems it was worth leaving in.

the music that overlays i admit needs to be fixed, i will lock the door with the brick wall behind it.

the citizens actually destroy the helicopter after it drops a bomb, so i think they are a little more than just cannon fodder (wait before jumping down)

you should be able to drop to the ground without loss of health, perhaps the leap of faith you took was a little unnecessary.

the one cluster of metro cops at the end was done intentionally.... havent you wanted to see a massive physics explosion with bodies flying everywhere?

and as for using props to cover up bad brushwork you really need to give your head a shake.

as for the dialogue i worked with what i had, it was the only sentence that had basement in it, so i figured the difference between get in the basement and stay in the basement wasnt that big. (should have been obvious enough you started the map in the furnace room.....

just because something isnt smacking you in the face obvious, doesnt mean its not there. so you have to look around a little so what? would you like me to tell you exactly what to do?

take it for what it is worth buddy, a single player map made by a kid. you write this like your some journalist complaining about a game you just spent 50 bucks on. All this was was something I have been working on in the little spare time that I have.
Last edited by shapesform on Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lake 17

Postby shapesform on Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:24 am

oh and in terms of the layout, it was done that way so you could not access the tunnel without killing the sniper first, it feels less linear this way.

pointing out that my map needs reasoning because you found a door with a wall behind it and some rpgs rounds on the ground is a pretty fruitless attempt at constructive crticism. Because that is basically all that you have said, and the fact that you were annoyed by a barnacle in the ground, a sniper you couldnt match, puzzles you couldnt figure out, a laser in a sewer, and a cluster of combine. I worked with what i had, I have no faceposer experience so I told the story visually as best I could. I left it to the gamer to fill in the blanks.
When you say part of the map is decent and the rest is so sloppy and lazy it isnt worth mentioning, which parts are you talking about? its a pretty bold statement (with no backing) and I was just wondering if you could maybe clear up what you were talking about.

if you are talking about the area that has no light then please save it. the area was left dark and simple for the very reason that your fov is so small when you have only your flashlight to guide you, so small that adding detail to a dark area would be pointless and a waste of resources. It takes 20 seconds to move from one end of the dark room to the other, its not worth adding detail to or complaining over.
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Re: Lake 17

Postby Stubby on Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:19 am

what he just gave you was called constructive critisism. it was a tad bit harsh. a TAD bit. nothing for you to get your panties in a buch mister. hes helping you. he has pointed out the problems with your map.
learn from what he said or dont. but the quality of your maps will be judged on things like he mentioned.
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Re: Lake 17

Postby nub on Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:29 am

...


I can't say much but that the map needs polishing on just about everything. There were so many flaws that just made it so stupid and boring that I had zero fun when playing it. There were so many props that wouldn't render, INCLUDING npcs, so there was literally no point in playing the map.

I encountered a spawn point for manhacks that was on the ground of the bridge at the beginning. I kept killing manhack after manhack until it was finally depleted. I saw some cars piled up on eachother and noticed that underneath one was a random metal cylinder brush. This looked absolutely silly, an oildrum would have been better. Maybe an explosive one that blew the cars up? That would be really awesome to see.

Your sniper was placed pretty badly. He was invisible and in a cargo container...they're meant to be placed in windows of buildings, and you put a black interior in the "room" they camp in so it looks like they're hiding in the darkness. Not place them in a damn cargo container where you can see plain as day inside of it. It looks stupid to see a laser beam coming from thin air that shoots sniper rounds at you.

After slaughtering all the soliders with godmode (I didn't even feel like really playing the map to win, I just wanted to see what everyone was talking about) I went for a swim and noticed that there was like...no lake floor. All the sloping displacements didn't meet, there was just a big gap. I mean, this lake wasn't meant to be explored, but players are bound to anyway, so why leave a hole in it? The good thing is it didn't leak or something.

I went and dropped down in to the square-haped pit that looked horrible." Why waste resources?" Come on, that's NO excuse for a 100-foot rectangular prism, that's just stupid. Which led to the laser sewers I guess.


The laser tunnels were annoying only because of invisible barnacles and the fact that those pipes are RETARDED to use as climbing features. You should have just added a ladder or something, it would have been better and easier. After I finally got past the invisible barnacles and props, I made it to the puzzle room I guess, except for the fact that the props I could use weren't even rendering, so I had no idea what to do, so I just noclipped out of there, and then came the street.

The street battle, again, was pointless as I couldn't see any of the combine soldiers. So I just set sk_max_smg1grenade to 9999 and binded impulse 101 to backspace and got an unlimited supply of smg grenades and spammed them all over the street until there were no more bullets flying at me. The only npcs in the street scene that I was able to see were the rappelling combine, but they were pointless since they were all cluster-fucked together and were easily dispatched. Then I found the final door after being fooled that the one by the tanker was it, but was just a brick wall; oh and they weren't rendering either. I got to the end, only to be stopped and told I have 6 hours to live. It felt like the ring or some shit. Oh, and if Gman was supposed to be standing there, he wasn't, BECAUSE HE DIDN'T RENDER LIKE 4/5 OF YOUR OTHER PROPS!

Now, I know this not-rendering crap is a map-side problem, because I played through episode 1 yesterday just fine without any problems whatsoever. I also had this problem with one of my maps once, and I forget how I fixed it.
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Re: Lake 17

Postby shapesform on Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:54 am

when you noclip through maps you miss triggers and end up screwing up events, if you had played through the level normally I sure the experience would have been much different. and dont worry about the props that arent rendering, I can play through the map from start to finish with no errors just fine. get out of dev mode, stop worrying about models that arent rendering because every model that is supposed to show, does, and just try to play and enjoy the map.
if you find an error that stops you from completing the map, a leak or anything along those lines then please feel free to let me know. But if your going to complain about snipers inside of cargo containers, 100ft drops, lasers, please save it for someone who cares about what you think, so thank you for your optimism.

please go back to making multiplayer maps and stop giving me advice on SP mapping when you obviously have no experience with it yourself, and if you do please post a link here so i can bleed all over it and return the favour.
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Re: Lake 17

Postby Zipfinator on Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:31 am

They're trying to help you get better at level design... From the sound of it, 100 foot drops and laser sewers sound like pretty bad gameplay... And looking at your pictures it looks like you need their criticisms... Don't come into here with what sounds like a bad mod looking for criticisms and then come back basically saying fuck you to the people who are trying to help out... I'm positive that all of the people who gave you criticisms can make a better looking map, and probably a HL2 SP mod with better gameplay than yours, so accept what they have to say.
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