My new game, and design talking

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My new game, and design talking

Postby marks on Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:08 pm

Prologue
So, I'm making this new game. I wanted to post about it, partly to keep a record of the progress (and to motivate me to finish it) but also so I can talk a little bit about what we're doing, maybe get some feedback and give other people a little insight into how we're tackling things.

So, what is the premise? Essentially we're going for an arcade-styled top-down sci-fi shooter, with gameplay somewhere between conventional games of the genre (Alien Swarm / Alien Breed), and tower defense-styled games. We don't have too much set in stone right now, our current plan is to mess around a bit with gameplay prototyping in our pre-production phase and figure it out then. The general idea is that you must defend an objective against successive waves of enemies, using pewpew laserguns and limited deployable items like sentry turrets and mines etc, once you survive a certain amount of waves, you progress to the next stage.

How do you start something like this? Like you should start all projects, with a rough idea of the ballpark you want things to be in, a lot of research, and a design document. I've pretty much nailed down the process I want to use for small team projects by now, and I'll enlighten you as to what it is:

That plan wot I wrote:
Phase 1 - I have an idea guys! - Get stuff done on your own, get your design nailed and documented. I'm pretty lucky that I have another artist I'm working with here who is ploughing through design work with me. Stuff we need covered before we move foward is:

Basic game mechanics documented (General idea here, nothing too in-depth).
Narrative and World design mostly done (again we're talking broad strokes here, our game isn't very narrative focused but it is still important that it is a consideration early in design, otherwise it can easily become disjointed).
Art Direction mostly done, we want this one to be a little more detailed because we're both artists and it will really bug us if we don't have a strong framework to guide us later on. Also we're not using a common style so we need to do a little bit more groundwork.

Phase 2
- Pre-production - This is where the real meat grinding starts happening, we're mostly focusing on research and prototyping at this stage. This means we need to work out how to implement anything that seems difficult - this could be gameplay features or graphics effects. This is also when we knock out our first alpha version which we will use to prototype gameplay - it's going to be entirely placeholder artwork (think lolcubes and spheres to represent enemies etc) and used literally to try things out with the gameplay. We will however, make sure we have a particular room or section of the alpha build which we use as an art test - we will take that room through to 100% finished artwork to make sure that we have the art coherent and fitting the style we want.

If everything goes well, we should have dealt with most of the difficult issues here that we anticipate running into when we make the game. We also continue with narrative and game mechanic design during this phase, and make sure everything is documented.

Phase 3
- Production - This one is pretty simple, you've done all the hard work already, now you just have the time-consuming work. This phase is about 90% just churning out artwork and animations and stuff, polishing and fine-tuning any code that was written, bug fixing and generally making sure the game plays well (pacing and features etc).

OMG wall of text!

I know, right? So here's some pretty pictures to break it up a bit! This is the current iteration of our style guide, it is a (hopefully) quite close representation of how we want the game to look.

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This took me a while, and a lot of research to get nailed down. I have a vision(!) and this feels pretty close to where I want to be in terms of artwork. I looked at a lot of games and movies, including stuff like Mirrors Edge, Moon, Star Wars, Tron Legacy and Brink. Hopefully it will be a strong framework that we can use to build coherent artwork for the game!

Why we're making a proof-of-concept first
We aren't making a huge co-op campaign straight away. What we're focusing on at the moment is making a proof of concept. Essentially, a very small part of the game which is complete, to prove that the idea works. We aren't too sure what we're going to do after that, we may just drop it and use it purely as a portfolio piece, or we may use the proof of concept to try to secure some funding and get it published. We don't know right now, and we don't care either. We just want to make a cool game. The point is that we're taking a manageable chunk to start with, so that if we do decide to keep working on it and try to get it published - we know what we're in for!

At the moment there's just two of us working on this, although we certainly will need programmers at some point and we have a couple lined up hopefully,this is still quite an epic amount of work I think. I'm excited about it, I'm getting to do a lot of things I haven't before. Being responsible for the overall art direction and production environment art for a whole project is quite scary. I hope I'm man enough for it ¬_¬

(this took quite a while to post, I may post more later on as and when there is more to talk about! Feel free to post any feedback)
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Re: My new game, and design talking

Postby Dr. Delta on Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:59 am

What do you think will (or how are you going to try to) distinguish your idea/game from the already established/settled/known games like for example Alien Swarm?

The gameplay you describe is in my view very like the already existing Alien Swarm, the top down sci-fi gameplay is already the core of that game and the tower defense parts can be found during hacking/special 'end' battles.

I'm also quite interested if you're planning on staying away from the already conventional mainly indoor/corridor/completely defined (the area you are supposed to play is really defined, walls everywhere etc.) game-areas; I'd be quite interested in some other approach to this, outdoor or otherwise less conventional levels/areas would be something I'd love to see you try to use, rather than the known/normal stuff.

Will the game (or does the idea already) feature some sort of barrier construction / build time/mode, similar to for example SourceForts; I personally think that something like that might make the gameplay and teamplay very interesting, particularly with the wave-based enemy attacks. I think such a thing might make the players be more aware of their surroundings and might also add an additional strategic touch to the gameplay. Furthermore it might also add extra play-time to the game since the player will be challenged to try out various tactics. If this idea of mine isn't yet included/considered, please do so now.

Lastly, please keep us (me in particular /ego-mode) updated; I'm very interested in seeing what everyone is working on; and this sounds like a very interesting game and also rather cool idea using the said method of development.
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Re: My new game, and design talking

Postby Plague on Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:30 pm

I like the idea, but as Delta already said it so far does not have anything against established games.

I like the theme too, but your references indicates lots of larger/taller architecture.
Harder to convey from top down where your spending more time looking at elements at ground level, below the player and at times slightly above the player.


But beyond that I can't wait to hear more.
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Re: My new game, and design talking

Postby poisonic on Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:16 pm

lol so you want a tron look too ;) for my mod i take over the dominant red and blue marking lines :P
and for the futuristic look i use syd mead's drawings to inspire me for a curved future buildings and props....
the main light colors yelowish white for lighing up the arena dominant blue and red maxium R or B value.....
good luck on your mod idea but a good advice from me is look for good colors to change the mood of the player in a good way by example R255 G255 B255 gives a paranoid white better is to cool it in to blue or warmer yellow ; )
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Re: My new game, and design talking

Postby marks on Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:42 pm

Dr. Delta wrote:What do you think will (or how are you going to try to) distinguish your idea/game from the already established/settled/known games like for example Alien Swarm?

We aren't. There will be similarities, thats just the nature of games. What we're trying to do is push the gameplay as an arcade-style, low time-investment game that you could, for example, take turns playing 2player on ps3 with a bunch of friends.

Dr. Delta wrote:The gameplay you describe is in my view very like the already existing Alien Swarm, the top down sci-fi gameplay is already the core of that game and the tower defense parts can be found during hacking/special 'end' battles.

It is similar yeah, but this is literally the base that we want to build from. We're trying to keep things basic so that we dont run away with ourselves and end up with a hugely detailed design which we will never even get half finished.

Dr. Delta wrote:I'm also quite interested if you're planning on staying away from the already conventional mainly indoor/corridor/completely defined (the area you are supposed to play is really defined, walls everywhere etc.) game-areas; I'd be quite interested in some other approach to this, outdoor or otherwise less conventional levels/areas would be something I'd love to see you try to use, rather than the known/normal stuff.

We're staying mostly indoors for the moment, because it gives more options and chances for different types of emergent situations (which is really the most important and fun aspect I think).

Dr. Delta wrote:Will the game (or does the idea already) feature some sort of barrier construction / build time/mode, similar to for example SourceForts

It isn't something we're looking at right now. We may consider it later down the line, but it isnt a priority for us.
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Re: My new game, and design talking

Postby Kosire on Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:56 pm

I'm guessing you will use the alien swarm code and modify it as a mod?
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Re: My new game, and design talking

Postby marks on Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:01 pm

We're building it from the ground up in UDK.
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Re: My new game, and design talking

Postby nub on Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:29 am

Awesome. I was gonna ask you the same thing. I'd definitely prefer to see this in UDK rather than Source.
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Re: My new game, and design talking

Postby Pwnd_Ja on Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:55 am

You still never told me where you got that interview at, but I'll just assume it went well as you are posting this.

As for the on-topic piece of my post, Delta pretty much hit the nail on the head. Innovation is something I find games these days are missing, which is understandable due to the lack of ideas that haven't yet been taken. I'd like to see some things like that(I'm buying your game.) and I'm sure the gaming community, hardcore or otherwise, really loves the feeling of playing something new.

We can has price estimate nao?
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Re: My new game, and design talking

Postby Gary on Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:34 am

Pwnd_Ja wrote:We can has price estimate nao?


The cost Innovation is quite high, you want something knew you gotta pay for it... Eight payments of $60
Have a question related to modding or something I posted? Something that needs staff attention? I haven't been active lately, but feel free to PM me or message me on Steam(link below)

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Re: My new game, and design talking

Postby marks on Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:52 am

I honestly think that people have been spoiled by "innovative" games in the last 20 years. Innovation still happens, it just isn't the case anymore that every idea is new (and if its innovation in gameplay you're looking for, you're unlikely to find it from us considering neither of us are game designers, or interested in becoming one). We just want to make games, we want to make something fun that we would play ourselves. We may not even finish it, we're more interested in making the game rather than having it finished and be really popular and make mega dollar and be e-famous.
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Re: My new game, and design talking

Postby Mr. Happy on Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:17 pm

I agree with that. Look at the old, traditional games. Is there nothing to be said for making a chess board from beautiful wood? Or designing a basketball stadium in a new way? Even if the game play is somewhat derivative if you and your team can pull of a really great execution (and I know you will) then it will be totally worth the effort! Not to mention the rewards of the process of building it.
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Re: My new game, and design talking

Postby Dionysos on Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:03 pm

Looking forward to seeing how you guys progress, the best of luck!
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Re: My new game, and design talking

Postby marks on Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:28 am

Its been a while since I posted last, so a little update :)
We've both basically been really busy the last month or so, myself with preparing for my job interview at CA and subsequently preparing to move house and start work there - my partner in crime with his final year university project. So things have been moving a little slower than we wanted. However, we're hoping to get the ball moving soonish and once the university year finishes in May/June we're gonna start ramping up (hopefully). We have a couple of programmers who are interested in working with us after the university year etc.

We've still been working on some of the design though. While we've decided that we're going to lay off the art and narrative direction for now, we've been doing some work on the gameplay design. We think that we really need to have some solid gameplay mechanics which will inform the art direction and narrative.

One of the primary reasons we decided to go with a minimalist style is to do with readability in the game - the less visual noise there is the easier it will be to see and understand what things are in the game. If you've ever seen a fast-paced action game like TF2, Warsow or Heroes of Newerth you will understand that readability is very important to understanding whats going on in the game. Distinct, obvious visual effects for things like rockets and magic abilities are important to being able to quickly see them and react to them. We want our game to be relatively fast paced also, so we feel this is an important quality to push for.

In regards to the gameplay, there are a couple of ideas we've been playing with recently. The first of which is the idea of a basic AI "wave manager". This would be a very basic version of the Left 4 Dead AI director, primarily responsible for deciding (via a weighted random choice) which types of enemies would constitute the wave, and which direction or path they would attack the player-defended objective from.
The first reason we want to do this, is to give the game a higher replayability value. The second reason is to mask the "algorithm of the game". This way there would be no set pattern of attacks to defend, there would be no pattern to "figure out" and you couldn't just go google a guide to how to beat certain levels. It promotes thinking on your feet rather than memorizing what enemies come in which order from which direction.

The second idea I've personally been floating is to use the concept of "Zoning" as a core strategy principle in the gameplay. Having played a few games competetively at a high-level myself, it's an implicit concept to me but I found it quite hard to explain at first. Having done some research, it doesn't seem to be very well documented despite it being a core strategic principle in a huge number of games from Counter-Strike to League of Legends to Starcraft 2 to Chess.
The best way to describe it was summed up by vcool (cheers bro) in steam chat as "controlling the playable area of the other player". This is essentiall what zoning is, its the use of areas of influence, to control what your opponent does. For example in Chess, if you control roughly the middle 4 squares of the board with your queen and a knight, without having to do anything with them, they make it very dangerous for your opponent to move into a large number of squares. Another good example is in Starcraft 1 the use of deployable siege tanks in Terran vs Terran matches - units which do minimal damage while undeployed and able to move, but while deployed and immobile do large amounts of splash damage at long ranges. Because Siege Tanks are such a core backbone of the Terran army in TvT games, this leads to a huge positional dance of trying to catch the other player out of position or with his tanks undeployed. In RTS games particularly, zoning is typically very common with units which a) are very weak but b) have a high damage output with a long range. The 'glass cannon' so to speak.
So, essentially the implementation I would want to aim towards in our game, would be the use of player positioning (its a top-down shooter remember) aswell as deployables such as energy walls, sentry turrets, mines and what have you - to control the positioning of enemies who are attacking you so as to put you in an advantageous situation.

This mechanic is extremely difficult to theorycraft without any kind of testing.

So, what we're hoping to do is get a very early playable build up and running with which to iterate and test the core gameplay. We dont understand how everything is going to work together, so we need to learn to understand it while we make the game - this can only happen through regular playtesting. I want to publically release these gameplay-testing builds, but I can't say for sure thats whats going to happen.

I realise this is a massive wall of text - I'm sorry. I just couldnt stop typing :s your thoughts and criticisms would be much appreciated, thanks.
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Re: My new game, and design talking

Postby Stormy on Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:09 am

I like that concept of "zoning". I think it's called "area denial". It's a good idea to flesh out for multiplayer games, especially a tower defense game, I mean, that's essentially the base game mechanic of the whole thing, right? I played a killzone game on a mates psp a while back that was a top down shooter but you could place claymores and tripwires and lasers and stuff. I remember it being very satisfying to see an NPC kick a mine when trying to sneak up behind you.

Have you looked at Sanctum? There's a free demo out. I think it's close to your idea. It might be good to play it and see what you'd like to change or what could make your game different. I think it has had quite a good reception.

A top down shooter smacks of mobile devices to me. It seems that top downs traditionally use less resources to run as opposed to an FPS. It also allows for an easier control scheme that would be suited to mobile devices. I know that there are plenty of examples to the contrary, but I still get that vibe.
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