The energy crisis and you

Discuss the industry, development techniques and other general topics

Re: The energy crisis and you

Postby Spike on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:43 pm

This:

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Re: The energy crisis and you

Postby amckern on Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:09 pm

Is that concept art from RAGE?

In terms of how much we pay - we pay $1.50 per 1000ml
So that turns out to be $5.68 per us gallon

I spend around $95-$110 a month on Diesel in my Ford.
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Re: The energy crisis and you

Postby zombie@computer on Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:50 pm

amckern wrote:Is that concept art from RAGE?

In terms of how much we pay - we pay $1.50 per 1000ml
So that turns out to be $5.68 per us gallon

I spend around $95-$110 a month on Diesel in my Ford.

its the core of the ITER.
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Re: The energy crisis and you

Postby Black_Stormy on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:51 pm

That's a mini fusion reactor (plasma fusion reactor?) designed to output energy at ridiculous efficiencies. That would be all well and good, but in order to gather the fuel required, transport it, manufacture/repair/maintain the various facilities/support required to run it and all the other shit, we need oil. This is the main problem I have explaining the crisis to people.

"We have solar panels" - We need oil to manufacture the solar panels, to manufacture the things that we use to manufacture the solar panels, to power the logistical chain to distribute the solar panels, to install the solar panels, to feed the people who do all the aforementioned work, etc etc ad nauseam.

There's only one way this is going down: vast reduction of the population of earth. I can handle that. Can you?
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Re: The energy crisis and you

Postby Gary on Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:58 pm

I completely agree. People seem to skip over how everything is done at lower levels.


Black_Stormy wrote:
There's only one way this is going down: vast reduction of the population of earth. I can handle that. Can you?


That depends. I am good as long as I'm in the part that isn't being removed from the population :P
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Re: The energy crisis and you

Postby marnamai on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:33 pm

I've been working for 5 year in the photovoltaic solar industry. The oil required to produce solar panel is nearly non-existant. Solar cell fabrication only requires oil for lubrication of the machinery (can be replaced with other non fossil-oil based lubricants). Solar panels requires it for some basic materials like eva and teldar (plastics, that are easly replaced by glass or aluminium and silicone , hell even paper is suitable => soon we 'll be printing solar cells)

Oil is currently only required for the transport of the materials to the factories, but trucks can run on biodiesel or other alternative fuel sources. So claiming you need oil for the production of solar panels is just short-sightedness.
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Re: The energy crisis and you

Postby Black_Stormy on Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:03 am

That is certainly some promising info. It would be fantastic if all the renewable tech you just mentioned fell into place nicely, providing a completely renewable logistical/manufacture chain, but even something as simple as paper has deep roots in an oil economy. The fertilizers used on the trees are likely petroleum based. The farming and harvesting practices are likely reliant on oil (tractors, processing equipment, chainsaws). The chemicals used in manufacturing the paper (assuming white paper, bleaches and binding agents) are also likely petroleum based.

Yes, all of these can be taken out of the equation. The farmers can use renewable, pre oil-era techniques and equipment. The paper mill can change its processes to use only renewable resources. The logistic chain can use bio-diesel. But you can't manufacture the same amount of paper without oil as you can with it. The stacked efficiency of oil based products throughout that chain will blow oil-free out of the water. This means there will have to be drops in productivity, therefore drops in produce, and drops in profit, likely drops in jobs, drops in money, and at the very extreme end of this scale, drops in population.

I really don't know shit about paper production, but assuming it's similar to farming and distributing food then the above won't be too far off the mark.
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Re: The energy crisis and you

Postby SourLikeLemon on Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:08 am

Well I'm quite worrying about this, because oil will in short period be out, but why should we get up a buzz about it? Get solar panels, a lot of them! And we can make some more electricity with that, dams and other things, by 2050 Mars will be with humans, up there will be some Nuclear power stations as well ( Terraforming Mars, look it up on youtube ) it's a amazing project, you should look up. But hey, mars definatively has some oil in it, by 2100 the greenhouse effect will take place so at day on Mars it will be 10 degrees C but still, it won't be enough for us, since population will grow up to a point where algicultural powers of earth won't sustain us, so everyone will start staving, like Africa does, but seriously mate, isn't there a solution? YES IT IS! Just think a little, and we will all have some electricity, some water, and some food for us.
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