marnamai's WIP thread (FINAL PUBLIC PLAYTEST V3_4)

[Riomaki]

Blue may look better, but the light angle clearly isn't the same between the two examples.

[MrTwoVideoCards]

I really like the blue! ++1

I'm a fan of the bright day time too. I would suggest toning down bloom a bit, but keep the overexposed look you have. There's just something about it that's very visually pleasing.

EDIT:
Mixing the two could make for a nice atmosphere. Blue environment and Orange artificial (Prop) lights.
This is a screen from one of my own maps, the lighting varies between blue and orange and leads to a nice aesthetic overall.

I feel this is not a good example of anything outside of some orange and blue lights slapped in a fairly bland hallway. I don't think that really helps anything. For sure orange and teal/blue is overused, however It's generally a stylistic choice, one that doesn't make any single environment instantly visually pleasing.

[Ade]

Author decided a few posts ago (on the ORANGE... sry marnamai) So don't bother stating opinions anymore.

[marnamai]

welp, map is about 50% done, I don't think I have the time to finish my original vision I had for the map, but I still want to add a propper end battle to give the map some sense of acheivement when the player finishes it.

I 'd prefer to use the remaining time to polish the existing gameplay and visuals so I can deliver something worthy.

[Riomaki]

Sounds like a plan. It's great that you left ample time for polish.

[marnamai]

I am curious how this will work out, but I 've been playing with the idea of doing public playtests for my map.

So here it goes. The map and required files can be downloaded here.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/163 ... verflow.7z

IMPORTANT, read install instructions!
Create a new folder named "custom" in ep2's root folder, then copy-paste the overflow folder structure into it. (play in ep2, launch via console => map overflow_v3)

ep2/custom/overflow/maps
ep2/custom/overflow/models

If you can record demo's, please do! All other forms of feedback are welcome too.

[Dysprogue]

Pretty fun to play with no real issues in the beginning areas, the finale has a few problems, The sniping mechanic is awesome but all the action is over on the right hand side that plus the limited FOV means that the APC section isn't for a while this would be more tolerable if the preceding save point was after the sniper arena but as it is it's frustrating to play through an area that you've beaten if you get killed by something that you didn't see coming.
Second issue (a much smaller one) is that the van on the right hand bridge (from the snipers perspective) blocks you from using the second open door to enter or exit the vehicle which somewhat breaks flow. There are still a few dev textures on most damage areas though I'm guessing that's something you already know. The strider at the end is somewhat misleading as you could probably take it on with the mines
I did initially have trouble with the installation, first time I admittedly made my own assumptions on how to install it and just put the maps and models folder straight into the root folder which lead to the camera view being stuck.
But when I installed it correctly the game was crashing and telling me that I put a new folder in and I probably didn't mean to do that. Anyway eventually it seemed to fix itself. Had some technical issues with .dem so these demos are not the first playthrough but I have made an effort to replicate any issues I found in the first playthrough. Though I should note in my first playthrough there were zombies in the steam section on the second there were not.

Sendspace link 1
https://fs11n5.sendspace.com/dl/e5bde80559fa5ea59cee20538acefc60/5396eb23753f693c/y5wlan/overflowfull.dem
Sendspace link 2
https://fs11n3.sendspace.com/dl/10b0755c66199f1c43d56bea8a0eaf7f/5396ebca2e77d5ff/x3779k/overflowfull2.dem
Sendspace link 3
https://fs11n3.sendspace.com/dl/ff2ca86e0e9fef722195938abea7eea4/5396eb6049fd66dd/yypeoc/overflowfull3.dem

[Jeeves]

At the section with the fast-zombie(s) it is possible to keep spawning it by repeatedly opening/closing the door.They spawn on top of the metal shack and don't attack unless damaged. This might happen if the player wanted to lure the zombies through the gas for whatever reason.

The level itself was really good; the sniper section was just... .

[marnamai]

Pretty fun to play with no real issues in the beginning areas, the finale has a few problems, The sniping mechanic is awesome but all the action is over on the right hand side that plus the limited FOV means that the APC section isn't for a while this would be more tolerable if the preceding save point was after the sniper arena but as it is it's frustrating to play through an area that you've beaten if you get killed by something that you didn't see coming.

added extra autosave

Second issue (a much smaller one) is that the van on the right hand bridge (from the snipers perspective) blocks you from using the second open door to enter or exit the vehicle which somewhat breaks flow.

replaced van model

At the section with the fast-zombie(s) it is possible to keep spawning it by repeatedly opening/closing the door.They spawn on top of the metal shack and don't attack unless damaged. This might happen if the player wanted to lure the zombies through the gas for whatever reason.

fixed the door outputs to fire only once

[DrAddicted]

After I got it to work, thank you marnamai for further instructions, how to add your custom materials, , I played it and it was a fast passioned, fun, map! A couple of areas could look a bit better, because there are some areas VERY detailed, like the small container home with the two concrete stones and the plank as a table, but there are some areas that look pretty blank. Still very good map! I'm wondering how you progressed? How did you plan the gameplay? Like, do you block out the Zombie and the Combine areas and than get some ideas what could be creative (bridge battle with the APC, or the sniper section) and some things from Half-Life 2 (like the sinking car in the canal, where the Zombies rise from the toxic mud)?

[Riomaki]

Sadly, my demo didn't record correctly, so I'll have to explain my points.

- I somehow managed to spawn the first time without picking up the Crowbar. I wound up getting snared by the Barnacles during the first Zombie battle to predictably hilarious results.

- I like how there's this immediate side path at the beginning of the level where you can stack your way to that catwalk. Felt nice.

- I'm not sure what the intended solution for picking up the Magnum is. I wound up maneuvering it between the seams in the fence and collecting it that way, but that didn't feel correct.

- The line between toxic goo and ground is sometimes hard to see. Anything you could do to make the islands stand out a bit more would be a good thing (maybe just a bit of garbage debris).

- I did try to go up the big brown pipes. There wasn't anything up there. Might be a nice spot for some particle effects and audio.

- I didn't stand around and try multiple times, but the wooden struts that hold up that grate should probably be puntable or breakable with the Gravity Gun if they aren't.

- Next to that grate, I'm not real fond of the driftwood prop on the one island. That one has always had dodgy collision.

- The room with the garbage piles just beyond the grate should have more ground and wall overlays to sell it.

- I like this ladder with the wood beam stuck in it.

- I really like how you use a Zombie to show that the steam is hot. The duct cul-de-sac next to this is a nice little puzzle. You do a lot of good scripting with Zombies to keep them interesting.

- This next part, with the overpass, was kind of confusing for me. I wasn't sure what triggered the Sniper. It seems like I went around in a circle and he was there when I returned. I feel I solved the Combine ball puzzle in a strange way (riding the car lift up, then across the light fixture and over the fence). I wasn't too fond of getting swarmed by Metrocops when I hunkered down in cover (for some reason, I don't expect gun battles with snipers). I neglected to see the ladder leading up to the Sniper's nest, so I had a boring time trying to pick off the Metrocops at a distance. When the APC arrived, that was my signal I was doing something wrong and when I eventually found the ladder.

- As far as the APC itself, I didn't understand what to do with it at first. I threw some Hopper Mines at it, but because it didn't react to getting hit, I wasn't sure if that was the right solution. Eventually, that green sign on the ground caught my eye and I saw the adjacent ladder. I tried several times to jump across and grab the ladder, thinking maybe the idea was to run from the APC and not fight it. This naturally didn't work - even though it looks like you should be able to grab the ladder. It wasn't until I saw the Scanners dropping more Hopper Mines that I decided to try using them again (there must be a reason why he's replenishing these), and after 6-7, the APC blew up and the problematic ladder feebly falls over.

I liked this level, generally. It had kind of a slow, methodical pace that encouraged and rewarded exploration. I might suggest you find another opportunity for some mood music - maybe one of the "trainstation" songs. I hope you find this useful. If there is anything else, let me know.

[marnamai]

Sadly, my demo didn't record correctly, so I'll have to explain my points.

- I somehow managed to spawn the first time without picking up the Crowbar. I wound up getting snared by the Barnacles during the first Zombie battle to predictably hilarious results.

I didn't include the crowbar into the spawning equipment because a few people complained they didn't know they had the gravity gun. (thus forcing them to start with it and building up their arsenal) I should find a better spot at the start of the canal that "forces" the player to pick up the crowbar

- I like how there's this immediate side path at the beginning of the level where you can stack your way to that catwalk. Felt nice.

There are plenty of goodies hidden I like exploration myself in games.

- I'm not sure what the intended solution for picking up the Magnum is. I wound up maneuvering it between the seams in the fence and collecting it that way, but that didn't feel correct.

pick it up with the gravity gun and pull it through the gap above the fence door

- The line between toxic goo and ground is sometimes hard to see. Anything you could do to make the islands stand out a bit more would be a good thing (maybe just a bit of garbage debris).

I 'll try to add some more debris and make better use of the blend texture

- I did try to go up the big brown pipes. There wasn't anything up there. Might be a nice spot for some particle effects and audio.

should have clipped those pipes

- I didn't stand around and try multiple times, but the wooden struts that hold up that grate should probably be puntable or breakable with the Gravity Gun if they aren't.

Due to the weight of the gate I didn't think they should be puntable (like the traincar in the hl2 canals supported by the wooden beams)

- Next to that grate, I'm not real fond of the driftwood prop on the one island. That one has always had dodgy collision.

I 'll try to smooth it out, raise the displacement a little

- The room with the garbage piles just beyond the grate should have more ground and wall overlays to sell it.

initially I wanted some shanty houses in that tunnel, like a small rebel camp, I 'll probably do that during the detailing pass

- I like this ladder with the wood beam stuck in it.

- I really like how you use a Zombie to show that the steam is hot. The duct cul-de-sac next to this is a nice little puzzle. You do a lot of good scripting with Zombies to keep them interesting.

- This next part, with the overpass, was kind of confusing for me. I wasn't sure what triggered the Sniper. It seems like I went around in a circle and he was there when I returned. I feel I solved the Combine ball puzzle in a strange way (riding the car lift up, then across the light fixture and over the fence). I wasn't too fond of getting swarmed by Metrocops when I hunkered down in cover (for some reason, I don't expect gun battles with snipers). I neglected to see the ladder leading up to the Sniper's nest, so I had a boring time trying to pick off the Metrocops at a distance. When the APC arrived, that was my signal I was doing something wrong and when I eventually found the ladder.

I fixed this by only dropping the metrocops from the dropship once the player entered the sniper tower

- As far as the APC itself, I didn't understand what to do with it at first. I threw some Hopper Mines at it, but because it didn't react to getting hit, I wasn't sure if that was the right solution. Eventually, that green sign on the ground caught my eye and I saw the adjacent ladder. I tried several times to jump across and grab the ladder, thinking maybe the idea was to run from the APC and not fight it. This naturally didn't work - even though it looks like you should be able to grab the ladder. It wasn't until I saw the Scanners dropping more Hopper Mines that I decided to try using them again (there must be a reason why he's replenishing these), and after 6-7, the APC blew up and the problematic ladder feebly falls over.

I think the apc / mine battle is okay, but I am not satisfied with the falling ladder at all ... I found it really difficult to come up with a good way of allowing the player to cross over to the other bridge only after they defeated the apc

I liked this level, generally. It had kind of a slow, methodical pace that encouraged and rewarded exploration. I might suggest you find another opportunity for some mood music - maybe one of the "trainstation" songs. I hope you find this useful. If there is anything else, let me know.

[marnamai]

After I got it to work, thank you marnamai for further instructions, how to add your custom materials, , I played it and it was a fast passioned, fun, map! A couple of areas could look a bit better, because there are some areas VERY detailed, like the small container home with the two concrete stones and the plank as a table, but there are some areas that look pretty blank. Still very good map! I'm wondering how you progressed? How did you plan the gameplay?

the initial idea for the map spawned a few years ago, it was intented as an entry for planetphillip's sniperville contest, but I never finished the map (it didn't even have a sniper back then)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/163 ... gpoint.bsp
This is the original map, it was very rough and had terrible gameplay, but you can see how it grew from there.

I wanted the entire level to loop around the 2 bridges, once the main area (bridges and canal) were blocked out, I planned out a path for the player to follow. Since I don't like to throw the player "guns blazing" straight into the action, I wanted to do a buildup in difficulty. Start out slow and increate the challenge.
zombies => metrocops => more zombies combined with metrocops => sniper => dropships => ...

Originally the sniper tower had a machine gunner on it but he fucked up the player so badly, so I had to look for alternatives. I really liked using the machine gun after you got onto the tower to kill some metrocops on the bridge.
Using a sniper made the substation area way more enjoyable, but took away to option to use the machine gun as a revenge killing machine. Thus the idea of a sniper turret was born

I did plan out the major routes and events,some parts that didn't work out were kept as explorable side area's (like the area inside the bridge at the start), but most of the small things were ideas that popped up during the process of creating the map (like the zombine blowing up the metrocops on the bridge)

Once I make a pretty big playable chunk of the map I send it out to testers to find out what works and what doesn't.
Using their input I try to improve upon the existing stuff or scrap it completely and replace it with a different combat scenario.

Like, do you block out the Zombie and the Combine areas and than get some ideas what could be creative (bridge battle with the APC, or the sniper section) and some things from Half-Life 2 (like the sinking car in the canal, where the Zombies rise from the toxic mud)?

Once the big area's are blocked out and the player path is planned out, I place a few enemies in the map to get a feel for the area. Assign enemies to area's where they would be usefull and effective (zombies => low combat intensity and close range combat, metrocops => medium range gun combat with cover)

If there are uninteresting area's, I try to add in some stuff for the player to do, that make sense withing the setting. I don't mind borrowing elements from HL2 (such as the sinking car)
Most of the stuff were just very basic ideas that were iterated upon to grow into what they are now.

I use a lot of instances for interations, it saves a lot of time renaming entities!

[Riomaki]

I like the shanty town idea. It's a good place for it. Might also be a great place to foreshadow the rebel camp at the end of the level (i.e. wall scribbling saying how they relocated - the level could benefit from a little more "What am I doing here?" explanation). I also agree with the weight of the gate. I think it's an edge case - but since the gameplay obviously circles on whacking that last beam and getting out of the way before the grate comes down, I think gameplay wins there.

I agree that the ladder is a weak point. My first suggestion would be having the rebels show up after the APC is destroyed... but that's cliche and I really like how that rebel just appears at the end of the freeway and encourages you to follow him. It feels very natural and I wouldn't want to alter that.

Another thought might be if the APC itself do something to end the battle, like crash into the signpost or become a bridge itself. You'd have to phony its death sequence. A related idea might be to launch rockets (npc_launchers attached to the APC) on its death which knock things over or push obstructions out of the way.

I'm just making suggestions aloud. Maybe something will click and inspire a better idea for you.

Part of me wonders if you even need a barrier at all, but I'd imagine part of the reason you did that is because the APC is a horribly fickle AI. As it stands, you did a great job of scripting it. Be wary that the player can punt APC with the Gravity Gun, though.

[marnamai]

yea, the apc is no challenge when its within punting range of the gravity gun.

Instead of having the ladder simply fall over, maybe the strider should arrive a little earlier and shoot his cannon at it
(perhaps a rebel standing ontop of the thingie)

but if I do that, the player may be very hesitant to cross over to the other bridge, he 'll be more inclined to hang back and use the mines (even tho the scanner stops bringing extra mines once the apc is dead)