Old New Earth

[Nixt]

Well, I have recently been drafted into Blizzard as a project lead. I am working on the mapping side of Diablo 3 and some other secret things. I am going to be placed into the BlizzardActivision joint corporation.

[MayheM]

I think what Zombie meant was that in the professional world people can direct and not necessarily creating something, (not that brainstorming is not useful and important. I mean creating in a traditional sense) however more often then not if you are part of a mod team you are creating something. So people are weary of helping if all those people involved are not contributing the same amount of work. I just think the approach to a professional game and a free mod are different in the fact that people have to be motivated by the fact they love what they are working on, while in the biz you can push through crap because it pays you.

I for one am not judging you. I said it before It sounds like a great storyline. I am a huge fan of the Diablo series so I look forward to seeing that...

*note* I could be wrong on the meaning behind Zombies post, I am just speculating...

[KILLA-COW]

Well okay, from my short conversation with you on msn and reading this thread, here's what I think.

- You need to get some concept shots or some reference material, when I asked about this you had NONE whatsoever and reacted pretty defensively about it.

- You need to be less patronising because you are HORRIBLY patronising, especially just because you're a bloody project leader, at least above you've divulged more information about it than in our conversation. Just because you're a project leader doesn't mean your mod idea is a good one, you need to provide more detailed information to prospective team members in order to get them interested and so they actually know what they are doing, also I'd still advise (eventhough you seem not to agree) that you should get something done, if you're a mapper do some mapping so that there is some hard evidence that there has been work on the mod and people can get a feel of where it is and where it is going.

- Also if I'm not mistaken the other day you posted a thread about a beginners mod, now this may well be the same thing and I might be confused again but it doesn't sound as if it is the same thing and if it's not that means A) you've just ditched your previous idea (will this happen to this one?) or B) you are still working on and leading that one thus you're going to split over work, this mod and the beginner mod thus stretching your time very thinly and I imagine leaving it all to the team members so you can LEAD and ORGANISE and all the other things you put in capitals to reassure us you are amazing at.

- I know I am as well just to preface this, but you are rather abrasive in your manner as well and your attitude, you seem to be more concerned with reaffirming your reputation and status in the game industry than you are passionate about the mod and passionate about telling people about it and getting them as passionate as you.

- At one point you also said "I work in the industry. This is nothing." Suggesting that you don't care about this as it's nothing or you think this is a trivial endeavour that will be easy, well like other people said the scope of what you are suggesting isn't going to be easy or quick or nothing.

You might be a team leader and good luck to you with that, but from what I've read here and what I've heard from you I just think you'd rub people up the wrong way and I don't see you as a leader of this kind of modification, most of the people here are amateurs not professionals, we do this as a hobby, I feel maybe you'd expect everyone to act like the professionals you work with and not be able to distinguish where the line is. I think this mod is far too early in the development stages to get that many people interested, as you clearly have NOTHING other than blocks of text, or at least that you were willing to show me and as I was, as far as you were concerned, an interested party in joining your team, I can only assume that you have nothing you'd wish to show anyone with the intention of joining.

People are more impressed with screenshots, concept art and models than they are words, ideas and job titles.

[zombie@computer]

I think what Zombie meant was that in the professional world people can direct and not necessarily creating something, (not that brainstorming is not useful and important. I mean creating in a traditional sense) however more often then not if you are part of a mod team you are creating something. So people are weary of helping if all those people involved are not contributing the same amount of work. I just think the approach to a professional game and a free mod are different in the fact that people have to be motivated by the fact they love what they are working on, while in the biz you can push through crap because it pays you.

I for one am not judging you. I said it before It sounds like a great storyline. I am a huge fan of the Diablo series so I look forward to seeing that...

*note* I could be wrong on the meaning behind Zombies post, I am just speculating...

indeed thats what i meant. Motivating people that do something for a living is entirely different to motivating those that do things for fun. People leave, get sick, you hire the wrong people, some do more work than others, some seem just in your team to be asses on the forum. Sure, sack em, but will you find new ones? without money, you need some other good motivator. Especially if you are creating something that sounds, with all due respect, like a 13-in-a-dozen modification.

[Ennui]

Just because an idea has been used once does not mean it is used the exact same way the next time. Oh, and for the record. The infection in Serenity was government man made, this is natural toxins. Not to mention, it could just as well be rage from 28 days/weeks later as Serenity.

If Zombies could fly spaceships and bomb Earth sure it'd be just like the Rage virus. In any case I was only having fun pointing it out, there's nothing wrong with borrowing good ideas or bits of ideas to put to use in a game, it's impossible to be 100% original anyway.

Thats great, but instead of acting like a complete idiot I'm sure you could just leave this thread. I am a project leader in the industry, in one of the top companies and currently shifting over to a joint owned mass company when it is set up. I am sure you, sitting in your dank basement, have not come close to what I have achieved with my non '' actual modding skill ''

I actually don't have a basement - I do most of my modwork in my bedroom at my apartment in between university work and getting drunk with friends! Nor have I stepped out of line at all in this thread (besides being a bit harsh, but let's face it, that's hardly unheard of in these sorts of threads or on the internet as a whole).

Oh, let them not take me seriously. The ones that do are enough anyways. If I work for one of the best companies in the industry on a project only recently unveiled a few months ago it's not likely I'm going to go showing off everything I've done for it or some of the deadware I've done before that that the company decided to cut off. Besides, being a Project Leader kind of means I cant give you solo projects because ... well, durr? When the game comes out I'll tell you what I did and how. Maybe you'll learn something new about the industry and your '' actual modding skills ''. Because, let me tell you. If you joined a mod and didn't know what to do, you'd need a project leader. You would also need a project leader to release your contribution to the mod to the team and to bycheck everything you've done. Heck, if you think being a project leader isn't '' actual modding skills '' then I expect you to give me a full length essay on why it isn't and what is?

I forgive you for your next insult, you probably didn't know I was in the industry. But just because I can run more then one project at once showcases skill, not showcases lack of skill.

I can barely see you all the way up there on your high horse, the legs of the damn thing extend far past the bottom of the clouds. Best you should dismount like zombie said so we can actually talk to you, although you might get some common man's shit on your royal boots Frankly I couldn't give less of a shit about you being in the industry or not, although that's great for you if you actually work at Blizzard, sounds more or less like my dream job. I'm working off what I'm seeing here - that you have already abandoned a project you started a few weeks ago (the beginner's mod), that you come across as arrogant and surely no fun to work with, and that you've planned a hugely ambitious modification that would take several years to make with a much bigger team than you're looking for (unless you expect those few mappers and modelers to work full time which is ludicrous).

Now I know how much work it is to manage a mod, I do most of the management for one of the mods I work on (recruiting, PR, website, coordination, game design, documentation) and it's a huge job. I'm not saying that isn't a real modding position - but it is much more difficult to prove qualifications for unless you have past released stuff you can show off than a content creating position such as mapper or 3d artist. This isn't the industry, this is the amateur modding scene, and here people are motivated purely by love of the game and the mod they are working on, doing this as a hobby in what spare time they have, and as such those of us who are serious about it aren't going to trust someone who can't show anything material they have done themselves. Stating that you have a full dialogue script and plot written isn't really enough (nor is it particularly believable that you have 10 hours of good dialogue and script written in the past week). You make your name here not by your big shot position at Blizzard (which you could easily be lying about, I don't particularly care either way) but by showing that you are dedicated, capable and a hard worker. Now your design in the first post isn't moronic or impossible (you aren't trying to make a full realistic city modeled with NPC civilians and huge GTA style levels etc) so maybe you are capable, but dedication is something you've already slipped on with your jump to this project from your noob modder project, and to show that you're hard working it's good to show that you've already started work in Hammer or 3dsm and aren't waiting for a team of people to do it for you because those sorts of people get ridiculed here as you are learning.

Now I am not trying to be an asshole but you need a serious change of attitude if you expect people to take you seriously or be encouraging and/or respectful here. Your project sounds interesting, but you are going to have a lot of trouble attracting talented developers (which are scarce and highly sought after as it is) without a lot more to show. You say you know your way around Hammer, why not spend a month getting the first couple of levels blocked out while you wait for your concept artist friend to give you some work? Then you are much more likely to attract artists and coders.

[Bema]

You might be a team leader and good luck to you with that, but from what I've read here and what I've heard from you I just think you'd rub people up the wrong way and I don't see you as a leader of this kind of modification

That's pretty much the first impression I got actually. Then again, he was pushed onto the defensive pretty quickly. We're all famillar with the legendary 'Interlopers Charm' when it comes to mod ideas.


The problem, Nixt, is that nobody knows you. It's all well and good saying you're a Blizzard project lead, but you haven't provided any evidence to support that. People have no reason to trust you.

Considering the high failure rate of mods, and peoples general lack of free time, we all like to see some solid ground work (not just a fleshed out story) before we offer our free time.

[Major Banter]

A gritty vigilante from The Lake District

You lost me there.

I've been told to stop raping new mod threads, but just to throw in my 2 cents - bring in the media and less of the professional attitude and you get respect. Look at Raindrop, Black Mesa Source or even Bungie with Halo ODST. All are really nice people showing off thier talent. You're a storywriter. Go find a mod that wants a story.

Btw I've got one, but I like your style. Drop me an email at lordskelhon@hotmail.co.uk with a 100 word super-short story about Russian decripitude if you fancy fleshing out my plotline. That applies to anyone.

[Corigami]

I find it hard to believe that you have no previous work to show us. It's a wee bit uncommon for someone to be hired into the "industry" without previous work doing whatever you do. By the way, what is it exactly you do? You say you've been working on "the mapping side" which is pretty unspecific.

Just wondering this stuff. Not trying to attack you or anything.

[Mr.Unreal]

Alright. I think you have a nice piece of story there. You have designed a large mod there but design is only a good basis. So if you're new to source modding start by doing something smaller first. Maybe you could do the first map of this mod with a couple new weapons & models and see if it gets going from there.

Good work with the design though. Good design is crucial to a succesful mod. Now you need to get only few guys to your team and see how it goes. If the first map goes well with all of you, then I can recommend you to start slowly making a bigger mod.

I'm not here to bitch or anything so good luck with everything. If you're in need of a part time concept artist I could see what I can do. I mostly work with just a pencil and paper since I don't have any fancy digital drawing boards. let me know if you're interested.

[Nixt]

Okay. Since everyone thinks I need a solid basis in the source SDK community I'm going to scrap this project and start on something small. But please, please don't give me grief over that as well. It won't be large, it won't be too flashy. So maybe people may join. If not, I'm going to have to take up mapping myself.

[Jeeves]

Nixt, if you don't mind me asking, do you have any basic knowledge of how the source engine works; or any experience
with it?.

Furthermore if you could provide a link to a portfolio, or just some work that you have completed from other projects it may encourage more people to work with you. Anyway best of luck with your mod.

[Mr.Unreal]

No. I meant nothing like that. But instead of scrapping the project just put it aside for a while. And get back to it when you have more experience.

I'm always interested to help new modders to get started so if you want me I can do some writing and/or do some concept art for your new project.

Add me to your MSN. My adress is jyri.hintikka@elisanet.fi

We can discuss about this new project and my part in it if you so choose.

[KILLA-COW]

You can't just keep on starting mods every time you get a criticism, I thought such a great project leader would have courage in his convictions.

Next time MAKE SURE YOU HAVE SOME GROUNDWORK, something to show people, plans, concept art.

[MrTwoVideoCards]

Well, I have recently been drafted into Blizzard as a project lead. I am working on the mapping side of Diablo 3 and some other secret things. I am going to be placed into the BlizzardActivision joint corporation.

Now I will not buy Diablo, thanks man.

Okay. Since everyone thinks I need a solid basis in the source SDK community I'm going to scrap this project and start on something small. But please, please don't give me grief over that as well. It won't be large, it won't be too flashy. So maybe people may join. If not, I'm going to have to take up mapping myself.

What I can't understand is why Blizzard would appoint such a place for you and then having said that, come onto a modding community leading a project that is likely going to interfere with your current job. I go to collage, and have a job, thats enough for me to take away from my day. Working at blizzard though? The real question is if you're working there, then: Why the Fuck are you over here, and instead should be putting more time and effort into Diablo 3?

Your logic in this thread is beyond what I can understand, it just contradicts itself in so many ways.

LETS COUNT YOUR AWESOME MOD IDEAS

1. http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?s=c9ec3510aa79225f31a1d4bc6231c077&t=156171

2. http://www.interlopers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29684&start=0

3. http://www.interlopers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29669

[Woe Kitten]

Nice find on the halflife2.net call mate... I've been keeping it professional up until this point but now I call bullshit.

BAN