Soul Destroying Kit

[Surfa]

I don't get how hard it is to understand the reasoning behind having three sdk versions?

2006 for working on mod that are based on the old engine including zombie master.
Also quite a few mods I know still are working on the 2006 engine because they were close to release on that engine.

2007 for working on orangebox mods.

2009 for working on ep2 level and mods that don't need custom code. Plus when the 2009 code is released working on those mods.

Also I think the main reason for this decline is that valve are recognizing that modding is slowly dieing. People now are creating indie games instead of mods. Engines like unity and udk allow people to create games with the same amount of effort as mods but then release them for cash at the end making it a more attractive route to go down. Custom maps and campaigns will obviously still be around but there has been a decline in new hl2 mods over the last couple of years.

But then again I don't have any of the problems you complained about so I am fine working with the sdk.


Edit: Also reading through it again most of your complaints are hammer issues yet you want to blame the sdk launcher?

[PiMuRho]

MajorBanter:

I don't have (much) issue with the SDK's idiosyncrasies. Like I said, I've been using it since 1996 - I bought Worldcraft! I'm used to the little quirks, and workarounds. I wouldn't go so far as to call them fun, though. However, when it flat out fails to run, crashes consistently for no discernible reason, that's just too much. I'm not complaining and expecting people to solve my problems, although a solution would be nice at this point, I'm making the point that we shouldn't have these issues. They are fundamental and shouldn't even exist.
If you're happy with the way the SDK is now, then more power to you. I, however, am not. I took a break from it a while back and now that I've returned - after an update, no less - it is worse. I just want to make maps, using the tools provided. I can't currently do that, and I've already spent five days pissing about trying to fix it. Hence my rant.
If you can suggest how I work with or around these issues, or adapt to them, I'm all ears.

Surfa:

The SDK launcher is responsible for the SDK game configurations. It's renowned for periodically deleting your game configurations and, in my case, rendering one of the SDK versions unusable.

[jister]

...
Also I think the main reason for this decline is that valve are recognizing that modding is slowly dieing. People now are creating indie games instead of mods. Engines like unity and udk allow people to create games with the same amount of effort as mods but then release them for cash at the end making it a more attractive route to go down. Custom maps and campaigns will obviously still be around but there has been a decline in new hl2 mods over the last couple of years.
...

exactly so where is valve staying with this "best thing that ever happened to the Mod community"...

maybe the reason they are so behind compared to Unity/UDK is that there tools and editor are to sketchy to release a stand alone version of.
And sorry to say but if source is seeing the grant evolution that happened to the mod community (going from modding to creating "indie" games with the same efford) as dying, then they might as well stop releasing SDK's.

[Plague]

Also I think the main reason for this decline is that valve are recognizing that modding is slowly dieing.

While i would hardly call this the death of Modding, you have a point.

We are seeing a shift in generation. Where the younger people are growing up and the currently younger generation is learning quick and skipping steps due to our success.
With this change comes the ultimate possibility that we will eventually see this "death" of modding, but I dont think we are seeing it right now.

I think we're just seeing this shift as less and less Minor Mods are released and slowly we form into larger more organized teams. The "Next Step" in what will lead to our joining into industry positions.

[ErikKiller]

Well I only use Hammer and Hammer works perfectly for me.

[DjBourgeoisie]

People are just realizing source sdk sucks? I hope I never have to work in source ever again.

[Surfa]

...
Also I think the main reason for this decline is that valve are recognizing that modding is slowly dieing. People now are creating indie games instead of mods. Engines like unity and udk allow people to create games with the same amount of effort as mods but then release them for cash at the end making it a more attractive route to go down. Custom maps and campaigns will obviously still be around but there has been a decline in new hl2 mods over the last couple of years.
...

exactly so where is valve staying with this "best thing that ever happened to the Mod community"...

maybe the reason they are so behind compared to Unity/UDK is that there tools and editor are to sketchy to release a stand alone version of.
And sorry to say but if source is seeing the grant evolution that happened to the mod community (going from modding to creating "indie" games with the same effort) as dying, then they might as well stop releasing SDK's.

The point is we are going to see a decrease in the number of people using source.

Why use the source engine when you can use something like the udk/unity/cryengine/leadwerks/tourque?

Honestly Source has had its time as the go to engine for modders and unless valve want to revamp it or release a new engine to compete (which they don't seem to want to) then of-course source modding is going to die down.

[source-maps]

besides the tools, you really have a limit on what you can achieve in source.. like the map I'm working on is going to have a big city in the 3dsky, can't even reflect it in the water so it looks uber gay..

there are more little things like that...

[Vilham]

Source sdk is indeed clunky, its BSP tools aren't bad tbh, faster to use than UDK but still not great either, however the rest of it, getting models/textures in, scripting, lighting, work flow (no real time lighting, no playing game through editor quickly) are very far behind UDK.

They just need to make a totally new engine and completely new tool, not retrofitting their current one.

Also, modding ain't gunna die for one simple reason. User base. It is the sole reason I made maps for source, lots of people to play my levels.

[Furling]

Well I only use Hammer and Hammer works perfectly for me.

Pretty much the same here although I admit Hammer doesn't always work perfectly (like the fact that multiple brush selection in grid views is f***** now, so multiple items like brushes and ents must be selected one by one.. really fun task with 50+ objects )
But even with bugs, most of the time it is still rather easy to use and quite powerful

It might be pure luck that for now I have avoided any mayor errors in SDK, but even though there is stuff to improve, imo it is in no way a "Soul Destroying Kit"

[Plague]

Back to my belief that Valve is making something big.
It would be the perfect time. New major SDK updates, New Major Source Engine updates and maybe more of the tools Valve use or at least more info on how they do it.

It would make sense if they started development of EP3 at the same time as EP2, they would have set a date that fit the estimated largest user base, which by Christmas next year some of us should have upgraded (those of us who have not upgraded recently) to newer and better tech, and if not, some of the best hardware is becoming cheap.
the GTX 460 is a big hit so far, at $200 its a cheap but powerful card.

The Updated engine branches are even more probable, Valve could be introducing the public to newer engine bits as they go as a sort of test bed for new features. This would also be the reason for the number of games that have exploded in this long wait for EP3.
This coincides with how they claim they are working with the Source Film Maker.
Gabe at some point stated that each (meet the team) movie is a test for a new feature, in the same manner that the Episodes were tests for improved gameplay and engine features.

We could be in for a nice treat with Portal 2, which we can assume will be a sort of "preview" of what EP3 will be like.
Maybe Portal 2 will come with an update to the Source SDK and apply (yet another) new engine version.
Or
They will provide us with yet another Branch with its own Authoring Tools.


An idea that came to me while reading this thread, maybe Valve could create a "Backwards Compatibility SDK" Which would cover non-current engine versions.
This would split the Older bits and leave a much faster and cleaner single "Current Version SDK".

But we'll have to wait and see... At some point Valve/Gabe will have to stop us before we start all switching to the UDK....

[polycruncher]

Perhaps the community could attempt to force Valve's hand, or at least make out voice heard regarding our issues and concerns. The l4d2 boycott was pretty retarded, and they got a lot of mileage and press out of it. If we could speak as a community and with some sort of hook or gimmick, we might get a decent response. Just an idea.

[Plague]

Well a guy on twitter got Gabe to at least admit to working on EP3, imagine what we could do if we got a truly organized group.

[source-maps]

Well a guy on twitter got Gabe to at least admit to working on EP3, imagine what we could do if we got a truly organized group.

lol... it's pretty obvious they are working on ep3 or at least something to finish the story XD

[Plague]

The point is he got Gabe of all people to say something...
So better then nothing.

That guy asked once and Gabe did the spin, then he pressed and got Gabe to talk some more.