City 17: Episode One Media Frenzy

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Re: City 17: Episode One Media Frenzy

Postby Pink Panther on Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:48 pm

What you guys have done with the engine is incredible, I hope Valve will take some hints from you as they work on Episode 3. The gameplay/gunplay looks very much like Farcry 2, which by itself isn't good or bad -- I personally enjoy the more 'realistic' aspect to it. However, I hope you guys have focused on more than just the guns for combat -- SMGs, Shotguns, Rebels, Combine, and Zombies became boring after 2007.

If I may make some critiques:

- Your fire/explosion/muzzleflash particles don't look right. The fire is too dispersed; I am talking about what's seen here and doesn't seem to have any plausible source. I realize that Valve is guilty of this in L4D, but their fire is dense enough that it doesn't look like separate puffs of flame. Yours honestly looks very much like Farcry 2, but FC2 got away with it because (most of the time) there's bushes and foliage to burn.

The muzzleflashes in the trailer (that music was kind of meh, by the way -- didn't do anything for the trailer) aren't close enough to the viewmodels of the weapons resulting in floating "stars", and you have visible tearing. See: here and here)

The explosions (again, going back to the video at about here) move way too slowly. I am not sure if that's because of a gameplay issue that playtesters reported or it was just overlooked, but it needs to move on the axis's and disappear faster.

My last point is a personal gripe of mine; this mod has become "that" mod that boasts gorgeous graphics and amazing enhancements, but is still just "WIP" and "Soon". I remember the guaranteed launch in Summer of 2010 (or was that 2009...) and I've just lost interest. This is becoming very much like Black Mesa, promising huge super-awesome-amazing-demo-trailer content, but fading off after months/years with minuscule traces of life every December. If/When you guys do release this mod, I will be extremely excited to try out all the new engine eye-candy you've put so many hours in to, but until then -- trailer included, I don't have any interest in this mod. Yes, I realize you guys are aware of this and poked fun at yourselves with the end five seconds of the trailer, but still.
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Re: City 17: Episode One Media Frenzy

Postby Hellraz0r on Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:56 am

Didn't say criticism doesn't help..

Doesn't mean you have to be picky ass trying to find every little detail you can have a cry about...

Source maps lol internet deal with it fuck off mate, try dealing with person like yourself who has to find something bad about something that looks good because they can't accept that it's an overall good project. Internet, deal with it. Lol good one bro, real good.
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Re: City 17: Episode One Media Frenzy

Postby Gary on Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:11 am

Calm down Hellraz0r. You are being unnecessarily hostile.
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Re: City 17: Episode One Media Frenzy

Postby Armageddon on Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:41 am

I like this trailer.
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Re: City 17: Episode One Media Frenzy

Postby source-maps on Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:28 am

I'm hellraz0r and rainbows make me cry :'(
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Re: City 17: Episode One Media Frenzy

Postby Gary on Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:05 pm

Come on now, don't you start.


Final warning. Let's keep this thread clean.
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Re: City 17: Episode One Media Frenzy

Postby Major Banter on Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:55 pm

I personally found the trailer to be largely a tech show, the same as several people here. I'd be repeating what they say if I gave my opinion. I would especially note what Panther has said; the particles seem very weak, and from what I've seen from older things it's either too much or too little. Absolutely love the projected light from the weapons - they just need a nice set of particles to do the effects justice. I'm sure you'll manage that in time.

In terms of notability, I feel the potential lies in the code and textures you've made rather than the gameplay and maps. Releasing such powerful and beautiful shaders to the public community is going to be the biggest success of this mod, not the mod itself. Whether or not that seems a worthwhile endeavor is up to you.

Equally, I have enormous praise for what you're making and though it's just HL2 with prettier graphics, I cannot fault HL2 for being a bad game. There's nothing bad about a little more of a good thing with a deluge of epic graphical updates.
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Re: City 17: Episode One Media Frenzy

Postby source-maps on Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:28 pm

Gary wrote:Come on now, don't you start.


Final warning. Let's keep this thread clean.


yeah you're right, I couldn't help my self ^^
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Re: City 17: Episode One Media Frenzy

Postby MrTwoVideoCards on Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:42 am

Major Banter wrote:I personally found the trailer to be largely a tech show, the same as several people here. I'd be repeating what they say if I gave my opinion. I would especially note what Panther has said; the particles seem very weak, and from what I've seen from older things it's either too much or too little. Absolutely love the projected light from the weapons - they just need a nice set of particles to do the effects justice. I'm sure you'll manage that in time.

In terms of notability, I feel the potential lies in the code and textures you've made rather than the gameplay and maps. Releasing such powerful and beautiful shaders to the public community is going to be the biggest success of this mod, not the mod itself. Whether or not that seems a worthwhile endeavor is up to you.

Equally, I have enormous praise for what you're making and though it's just HL2 with prettier graphics, I cannot fault HL2 for being a bad game. There's nothing bad about a little more of a good thing with a deluge of epic graphical updates.


I am glad that you really dig the shaders. With shaders we have kinda designed things with the approach of what Source kind of needed, or could really use, and ideally what would be nice for modders to use. So we haven't really designed any of the newest changes or shader stuff without thinking about how it would benefit the community in some way. So instead of just making cool shit and releasing it, we've wanted to make that cool shit run really nice, and have a lot of options, even if we would hardly use them. Like there's some stuff in there we're we've said to each other that it be really nice for an RPG game, or something outside of an FPS. Or even little tiny optimizations here and there where we've noticed people could likely get away with a larger scene complexity.

On the gameplay not though, and specifically on hl2 mods I'd have to say I am honestly quite surprised. I mean, looking back you see how the rise and decline of hl2 based mods have progressed. So there was this point where we kinda stood back and gauged on whether or not C17 would still be worthwhile making.

Like I had said previously in the reply to Hollow, we're fully concentrated on making a top notch quality mod, and specifically that goal was mainly around story telling, and story building for the Resistance. Though we honestly can't say we didn't enjoy making the game look nice while we were at it. Again a lot of that was just getting into the "doing these things to improve Source in general". With what I was saying earlier though about HL2 popularity, I think the mac updates really brought this large influx of players.

It introduced HL2 to a ton of people who likely had no idea about it, so the percentage of people who were already kinda of tired of HL2 dramatically fell. Or rather, was entirely overshadowed by the people that now did. So I think that overall, there's still a lot of love for this game, but it's really the novel things that are what make a HL2 based mods so special, like for instance the physics puzzles with Research & Development. So while hl2 is probably going to quickly get old-ish again, unless Valve releases HL3 or something soon, I personally feel that as long as HL2 mods are top quality they'll still be welcome. So we definitely know we have to kick it up a notch, otherwise we might as well not even try.

I think another thing is a lot of mods kind of have lost sight of what made HL2 really cool, and in general, the Source engine. So every time we design something, we're constantly thinking about whether or not it really takes advantage of the engine (water rendering, physics etc), and if it's a nice unique thing in terms of experience. I remember saying in a super old media release thread we had here (maybe last year or two), that gameplay wise, we try and make sure we never present the same thing twice, or at least in the same way. So it's definitely not going to be >room full of gys>kill them> progress>repeat. Whereas rooms can even in the literal sense mean outdoor areas. With regards to Hl2 combat against combine, and really all the NPC's in general, we try to make sure the environment functions for gameplay, versus being pretty just because it can.

So for combine, I think we actually have a lot more unique ways we bring them into the arena, or combat area. Or enough dynamics in certain areas so it's never the case of always moving and shooting forward. We like to make sure you actually have to turn around and move in a 3d space, versus current Triple A titles make you do these days. Same thing with zombies, we even have them jump, or rather just toss themselves into combat areas.

Hopefully players will notice those little touches, and feel somewhat refreshed to see we aren't just having guys walk into an area, or already be there when you arrive and have plain gameplay. But again like you said too, I think it's just based on how Novel Hl2 is to some, and that will entirely effect the overall fun people have playing C17 regardless of how much attention we put into those aspects. We just hope it's enough to have people notice, and feel like there's something refreshing there.
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Re: City 17: Episode One Media Frenzy

Postby MrTwoVideoCards on Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:41 am

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Re: City 17: Episode One Media Frenzy

Postby joe_rogers_11155 on Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:53 pm

its very impressive and well deserved. im surprised you scored lower than OF2 but still...and where is ivan's secrets on the list? aren't people chomping at the bit for that one??? i certainly am. either way, congrats!!!!!
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Re: City 17: Episode One Media Frenzy

Postby MrTwoVideoCards on Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:49 pm

Yeah I totally thought Ivans would make it.
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Re: City 17: Episode One Media Frenzy

Postby joe_rogers_11155 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:12 pm

the simple fact that they were on the alien swarm engine instead of the half-life engine...must have caused everybody to overlook them entirely.
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Re: City 17: Episode One Media Frenzy

Postby Jangalomph on Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:12 pm

joe_rogers_11155 wrote:the simple fact that they were on the alien swarm engine instead of the half-life engine...must have caused everybody to overlook them entirely.


most likely what it was.
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Re: City 17: Episode One Media Frenzy

Postby stoopdapoop on Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:38 pm

what the fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkk, no ivan's secrets?
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