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Re: Fixing env_pojectedtextue(Src2007 Mods)

Postby Kosire on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:59 pm

Can't ti be fixed with a custom vbsp/vrad too? Instead of having to fix all your models suddenly..
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Re: Fixing env_pojectedtextue(Src2007 Mods)

Postby Gary on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:20 pm

No. VBSP/VRAD don't touch RTT shadows. Though I suppose you might be able to make them detect which brush sides are lit by the sun and mark them as non RTT shadow receiving. No way in hell I'm trying that.

If you don't want RTT at all, you could just use the shadow_control entity to turn them all off.
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Re: Fixing env_pojectedtextue(Src2007 Mods)

Postby stoopdapoop on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:31 pm

last night I implemented orthographic shadows for a mod I'm helping Hollow with. (source2007)

They're remarkably ugly and needs some TLC but just setting up the projection isn't what takes the most work. I think the other fixes in the ASW engine are what'll take more time, if they're even possible.

clientshadowmgr communicates with the engine a lot, which makes changing it a real pain in the ass.
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Re: Fixing env_pojectedtextue(Src2007 Mods)

Postby MrTwoVideoCards on Tue May 01, 2012 11:02 am

Hey guys wanted to update you on a few things about C17 and the issues we fought porting it to ASW, and other general stuff. We decided that porting over to ASW was going to be more of a hassle than we originally thought. It also became a matter of what unforeseeable issues we would run into likely causing the porting process to be more difficult than it already is.

Here were a couple of issues we ran into porting to ASW:
  • GCF mounting. GCF mounting plain doesn't work in ASW. We tried a couple of various methods, even implementing HLlib directly into the engine, but no dice. We didn't want to ship with all of the hl2 content like Fakefactory does, mainly because that's retarded, and also no one wants to sit there and download an 8gb mod. Our solution was to build a program that extracts all the needed content via an installer. This unfortunately seems to be the most practical and easiest way.
  • No Custom Shader Support AT THE TIME FIXED NOW THANKS TO BIO. C17 has a buttload of shaders in it, so for sure we didn't want to throw that away.
  • Model Format. Models with animation files completely crash ASW Hammer, and occasionally the engine. Fixing this requires decompiling the model, fixing any issues that process may cause, and then recompiling the model with ASW's tools.
  • Porting AI. This isn't an impossible task for sure, it's just a matter of actually having time to do this, and debug it in the event anything goes wrong, or ai suddenly has issues.

Because of all of these issues we never ended up porting to ASW.
On CSM in Source 2007

The biggest issue here is performance. The lack of multicore means two things: Either your map is gonna have to look ugly (reducing amount of whats being drawn) or you'll have to aggressively tackle how you handle shadow res, and the cascaded LODs. For instance having the LOD levels much smaller, like having the lowest rt res as the second lod.

We realized that with shader power, and generally how much ass source 2007 is, there's no way to realistically achieve a runable framerate unless you throw really high end hardware to fill the gap, and when I say high end I mean running anything above a GTX 480 is SLI. Even then the real limiting factor again is multicore, since the majority of the rendering is CPU limited. With ASW it's much faster, considering mulitcore works there, and runs a lot better. Not to mention optimizations made in general to the engine.

So basically with source 2007, it's a waste of time.

Deferred Rendering Method!!11!! BIG TEXT

I wanted to make a little announcement that biohazard has been working on a deferred approach for Source 2010, aka ASW. Whats the big deal in doing that you might ask? Realtime lights, everywhere, all the time, with little perf costs. Deferred offers a couple of other big advantages, such as the ability to explore additional rendering methods and effects that forward rendering, and specifically source 2007 could not do. Because of the nature of how deferred works, you can essentially have an unlimited amount of dynamic lights in a single scene.

With deferred, effects like Dynamic Sunlight Shadows, SSAO, SSGI (Screen Space Global Illumination) and Bokeh DOF are possible because of performance gains achievable with deferred, but also because we're no longer limited to a low res Depth Buffer. We can now have 32 bits of procession. Banding and ugly SSAO be gone!

Best of all, this next level gangsta shit is entirely free. He'll be releasing it to the community. Bio is currently writing the entirety of the system, while me and 1/4 Life will be working on shaders/areas that will help with deferred after he's done, such as SSGI, and various other effects. Here's an example:


IMAGES ARE NOT DEFERRED GUYS, JUST BOKEH.

Image

Image

Image

Image

(Yes thats Bokeh DOF, no it doesn't require DX11)

Again the one limitation is that this is on ASW, so porting hl2 while not impossible, is something you'll have to figure out on your own, though feel free to ask me if you need help on the subject.

I'll keep you guys posted as information comes down the tubes. Oh and yes, c17 shaders will still be released. Sooner than you guys think too.

If you have any questions you can PM me, or email me at: mrtwovideocards@gmail.com Thanks and I hope it was worth the weight.
Last edited by MrTwoVideoCards on Tue May 15, 2012 2:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Fixing env_pojectedtextue(Src2007 Mods)

Postby Dr. Delta on Tue May 01, 2012 11:11 am

Excellent quality work, sirs. Really great it will be released to the community!
So sad it runs like WORTH THE WEIGHT on Source 2007.
Last edited by Dr. Delta on Tue May 01, 2012 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fixing env_pojectedtextue(Src2007 Mods)

Postby Gary on Tue May 01, 2012 11:50 am

This is pure win.

So, we can now have tons of dynamic per-pixel lights? I'm really looking forward to playing with that. Hopefully more people will mod the ASW engine now.
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Re: Fixing env_pojectedtextue(Src2007 Mods)

Postby Jordash on Tue May 01, 2012 12:00 pm

Man, you guys are seriously tempting me to port all my code over to ASW
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Re: Fixing env_pojectedtextue(Src2007 Mods)

Postby MrTwoVideoCards on Tue May 01, 2012 12:32 pm

Gary wrote:This is pure win.

So, we can now have tons of dynamic per-pixel lights? I'm really looking forward to playing with that. Hopefully more people will mod the ASW engine now.


Yup, and yeah that was the plan. One caveat on ASW is that tools mode via the sdk launches ASW in tools mode, versus your mod making particle authoring really annoying. I've messaged Jeep (he is in charge of the ASW SDK) about this and he said he's going to see whats up in his free time. Basically valve time, but hopefully if more people bother him we can get some progress faster lol.

jeep@valvesoftware.com
or
jeep@jeepbarnett.com
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Re: Fixing env_pojectedtextue(Src2007 Mods)

Postby srredfire on Tue May 01, 2012 1:47 pm

This is some next level shit.
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Re: Fixing env_pojectedtextue(Src2007 Mods)

Postby MrTwoVideoCards on Tue May 01, 2012 2:16 pm

You know how we do.
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Re: Fixing env_pojectedtextue(Src2007 Mods)

Postby Hollow on Tue May 01, 2012 3:06 pm

That's awesome timing, whilst Stoop and I were researching the CSM techniques for 2007, we decided last night that we will probably move over to the ASW codebase for the optimisations it offers.

Fantastic news man!
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Re: Fixing env_pojectedtextue(Src2007 Mods)

Postby MrTwoVideoCards on Tue May 01, 2012 3:36 pm

Hollow wrote:That's awesome timing, whilst Stoop and I were researching the CSM techniques for 2007, we decided last night that we will probably move over to the ASW codebase for the optimisations it offers.

Fantastic news man!


Except for you Hollow, you can't have it.
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Re: Fixing env_pojectedtextue(Src2007 Mods)

Postby Hollow on Tue May 01, 2012 4:50 pm

MrTwoVideoCards wrote:
Hollow wrote:That's awesome timing, whilst Stoop and I were researching the CSM techniques for 2007, we decided last night that we will probably move over to the ASW codebase for the optimisations it offers.

Fantastic news man!


Except for you Hollow, you can't have it.


But..but but...but, I'll...but...I'll, I bought Tay transatlantic pizza :(
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Re: Fixing env_pojectedtextue(Src2007 Mods)

Postby MrTwoVideoCards on Tue May 01, 2012 4:59 pm

Okay you're good then.
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Re: Fixing env_pojectedtextue(Src2007 Mods)

Postby Hollow on Tue May 01, 2012 5:10 pm

:D We bwest fwends now OK.
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