[HL2:EP2] Station 51

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Re: [HL2:EP2] Station 51

Postby Armageddon on Tue May 22, 2012 9:54 pm

HoliestCows wrote:
Smurftyours wrote:
HoliestCows wrote:everyone is such a better mapper then me. UncleSam, this map is fantastic.

Stop fishing for complements and sympathy.


Are you trolling? Because I am not asking for complements, I already get them.

ha ha ha ha
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.
.
ha

Okay no derailing, replayed the map and it worked, I liked it very much. I have nothing else to say, keep up the good work! :smt023
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Re: [HL2:EP2] Station 51

Postby Major Banter on Tue May 22, 2012 9:56 pm

Irrelevant argument is irrelevant.

On topic, an absolutely superb map. Lacking in the puzzle department, but an excellent map nonetheless. I am impressed by how much gameplay you managed to get in there, and how well optimised it was! It wasn't perfect, but it was very enjoyable and very inspiring!

You nailed the aesthetic and were very consistent, and I really am surprised at how large you were able to make the level. I'm going to have to rethink a few things in my own work. I also enjoyed the sewer area particularly; I felt it reeked of atmosphere.

The gameplay was also fairly good, and the well-spaced environments both inside and outside suited the gameplay style well. There were clunky sections, but little things like
Highlight to read:
rappelling Combine in the heli fight
are details a lot of mappers miss in making gameplay. Tres bien.

On a technical note; I spawned in the walls of the starting area. Is that just me?

If you would like me to do a detailed playthrough video, I'd be happy to. PM me.
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Re: [HL2:EP2] Station 51

Postby UncleSam on Wed May 23, 2012 2:19 am

HoliestCows: Nope, not supposed to be like that, good eye!

Armageddon: Glad it's working now, I think I might have removed a reference that was causing that crash, we'll see if anyone else gets it.

Major Banter: Thanks! Certainly is a lack of puzzles, I was mainly focusing on getting combat down. Thinking about some puzzles for the next map, though. That's odd about the spawn, that's not happening to me when I try it. Does it happen every time?
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Re: [HL2:EP2] Station 51

Postby joe_rogers_11155 on Wed May 23, 2012 6:51 pm

I just gave it a run during my lunch break and I think it was really good overall. I also think there is room for easy improvement. I tend to be more of a critic (read: douchebag) so you can take these comments as being strictly objective, because the map was fun, complex, long (for a single bsp), and obviously well-planned. By the way, these comments refer strictly to the gameplay. Aside from a few lighting gripes, I was pretty satisfied with the artwork involved in the map.

1. The first major battle on the rooftops was too easy due to lack of the soldiers' tactical diversity (btw, I play everything on Hard setting). I don't mind facing off against more than 6 Combine at once (in fact I love it) but when they all choose to rush at the player, things can get overly predictable. I died once, but then I realized they were all rushing...so I just stayed at the bottom of the first stairwell and they all ran into my guns blindly. I recommend having several aiscripted_sequences in place that will tell specific groups of soldiers when to rush at the player, and when to fall back to pre-determined locations (indicated by info_targets). That way, you can use math_counters to tell a squad of soldiers to fall back when they have lost 3 of their squad...alternatively, you can use that same method to force a shotgun squad to rush at the player. It makes the fight more dynamic instead of allowing me to funnel them into a stairwell and blast them all away as they run around the corner. I would have to venture out of the stairwells and go hunting for the Combine, which would put that large rooftop battlefield to good use. It could be a very fun, very challenging opening that would set the tone for the rest of the map.

2. Subesquent battles were a simply matter of "discovery". It seemed that none of the subsequent battles were challenging in the least. I was too well-armed and the soldiers were too few in number. Worse yet, I ran into what I call "discovery" battles a lot, where I round a corner and there are soldiers simply standing around waiting for any command. In my opinion, every single NPC should be given some kind of orders, whether those orders come from an arbitrary logic entity or from the enemy squads that the player just destroyed. NPC's should not be standing around waiting for the player unless you are designing an ambush. By the way, the perfect spot for a series of mini-ambushes would be right after the helicopter battle, behind the Combine door...I was expecting shotgun soldiers around the corners but there were none. Also, no Combine tech to fiddle with. Boring. Could have used a puzzle, at least.

3. The zombie sewers seemed short and uninspired. I was looking forward to a change of pace when I got the gravity gun but I zoomed by the zombie sewers in a matter of moments. In fact, I didn't even have to kill many zombies...I just walked right past them. This, combined with a lack of enemy diversity (I counted a single Zombine among all the regular zombies, and then a small clump of barnacles), made the area seem like an afterthought to me. You can solve this by adding in the other 2 types of zombies (even if there are only 1 or two of them) and numerous headcrabs (fast headcrabs and poison headcrabs tend to draw a player's attention, and tend to force an engagement instead of simple avoidance).

4. The hunter battle should have come prior to the helicopter battle. I had an RPG during the hunter battle, so I wiped them out very quickly. Not fun. And the 2 rebels would not even follow me after I saved them. If anything, I would enable friendly fire on the rebels so that they would die if you use the RPG so close to them. Even better, follow up the helicopter battle immediately with a hunter battle (with maybe 6 hunters total, experiment for the proper amount), so I can really let the RPG rip.

Well I hope you don't think I'm a douchebag after reading all this criticism. And of course, everybody thinks about a map differently so please don't think that this is the end-all and be-all of map advice. It's definitely not. It's just what I was thinking of during the play-through (maybe 15 minutes total).
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Re: [HL2:EP2] Station 51

Postby Black_Stormy on Thu May 24, 2012 2:13 am

joe_rogers_11155 wrote:3. The zombie sewers -snip-


I thought the zombie sewers were really well made. the gravity gun was heaps of fun to throw around in those enclosed spaces. The fast zombies make for terribad gameplay when they are in such close quarters, they just rush you and then destroy your face, I hate them. They are fantastic when used in open spaces though.

I'm uploading a playthrough to YT now, I'll link when it's done. Overall, very good map, I thoroughly enjoyed it and even though I died about 10 times I kept playing because it was at just about the right difficulty level for me. Usually I am pretty quick to give up on maps that really push you difficulty wise.
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Re: [HL2:EP2] Station 51

Postby Black_Stormy on Thu May 24, 2012 3:27 am

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Re: [HL2:EP2] Station 51

Postby Gambini on Thu May 24, 2012 9:24 am

:D lol Black Stormy it´s obvious that you don´t play as you do model. And did those bullets really hurt? Because i felt embarrased of your "ouch", "ehr" and "fuck" voices being played in my speakers. Also, you should have renamed your ep2 folder before playing, in order to take out your custom models.
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Re: [HL2:EP2] Station 51

Postby joe_rogers_11155 on Thu May 24, 2012 1:39 pm

as enjoyable as it was to watch (your reactions were funny to hear), i'm glad that you experienced the same problems i did and attempted to solve them as i would have...the funneling tactic in the first major battle, the ease of the following engagements, the rpg in the hunter battle, the dodging of the zombies (and it was just too short and in the middle of the combine forces, it would have been cool to see combine vs zombies in this map).
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Re: [HL2:EP2] Station 51

Postby Epifire on Thu May 24, 2012 2:56 pm

Around 5:40 had me laughing pretty hard when you jumped onto that very small edge running away from combine. It's weird how I play so differently from everybody else. Cause I would have never done half the things people mention.
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Re: [HL2:EP2] Station 51

Postby joe_rogers_11155 on Thu May 24, 2012 3:22 pm

i still debate internally over whether using invisible clip brushes on those tiny ledges adds or detracts from gameplay and the concept of "fun". some people really like finding those little nooks and crannies where they can hide out on a single inch of a ledge and escape/navigate in a non-planned way.

black_stormy, it looks like you have untapped potential as a mod gameplay commentator. go record your playthrough of research and development and get back to us in the random thread. that's an order.
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Re: [HL2:EP2] Station 51

Postby Gary on Thu May 24, 2012 4:00 pm

Had fun. It wasn't anything new, but it was solid. Could have used some puzzles.

The windows could have been done better in some areas. The window textures don't look good up close.
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Re: [HL2:EP2] Station 51

Postby Miigga on Thu May 24, 2012 5:42 pm

this post is obsolete

gary fixed his post
Last edited by Miigga on Thu May 24, 2012 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [HL2:EP2] Station 51

Postby joe_rogers_11155 on Thu May 24, 2012 8:15 pm

we could of done without that grammar lesson miigga

if there's one thing i think was done very well it was the sense of scale. at least in the set pieces (the first large battle and the helicopter battle), i think the arenas were satisfyingly large and also fairly believable. i really liked the fact that the box of rockets was located on top of a shipping container, forcing us to take an exposed route to reload the RPG. I think one more large-scale battle at the end, filled with hunters and enemy hopper mines (let's put that gravity gun to better use after leaving the zombies behind!!) would make an excellent finale to the map.
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Re: [HL2:EP2] Station 51

Postby Black_Stormy on Thu May 24, 2012 9:16 pm

joe_rogers_11155 wrote:go record your playthrough of research and development and get back to us in the random thread. that's an order.


I've been meaning to record playthroughs for a while, but I've already played R+D and we all know it's fantastic, so there wouldn't be any surprises. Next time there's a mod released - Like aberration or stroll - I'll do it again.
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