Best in-game story telling method and questions!

[Ashfall_2008]

Wasn't sure where to post this but wanted to get your feedback on some points around telling a story through a map.

I've noticed that an awful lot of SP and MP mappers don't seems to bother with a story when building maps. They seem more interested in asthetics or the nuts and bolts of getting a map to work correctly rather than to think about the player experience.

To me a story is everything. It lets the player know what they're supposed to be doing, it makes a map more than just an exercise in survival, it takes the player out of their reality and places them into a new one.
It's incredibly rare that I ever get truely drawn into a custom map.

So here's some questions for you to ponder...

Why don't more mappers make an effort with story in their maps?
Is it too much effort to write?
Is it too complex to get the entities working that tell the story?
Is story writing too hard in your opinion?

Do players even expect a decent story these days?
Have players become used to custom content that lacks a decent story?
Do players just not expect it?

What's the best story you've ever seen told in a custom map?
What methods were used to tell the story? NPC's, cutscenes, voiceovers, onscreen text, in-game monitors?

What stories would you like to see told?
I was thinking a nice EP2 map telling the story of the rise of the combine would be excellent. Showing how they arrived and how it all began. Unless I've missed this and it's already been done.

Anyway lots to discuss above. Would love to know your opinions!

[Saxon]

>Why don't more mappers make an effort with story in their maps?
Because no one really cares that much about them, any who bother trying to do a story usually come up with generic stuff you wish you could skip.

>Do players even expect a decent story these days?
Did they ever?

>What's the best story you've ever seen told in a custom map?
Never even seen a good story presented in a custom map / mod. The briefer the better.

TLDR; I play games because... they're games. If I want a story I'll read a book or watch TV which at least do things correctly, games are always Terrorists have hijacked a nuke / oh god horrible monsters what are they derp.

[zombie@computer]

Wasn't sure where to post this but wanted to get your feedback on some points around telling a story through a map.

I've noticed that an awful lot of SP and MP mappers don't seems to bother with a story when building maps. They seem more interested in asthetics or the nuts and bolts of getting a map to work correctly rather than to think about the player experience.

To me a story is everything. It lets the player know what they're supposed to be doing, it makes a map more than just an exercise in survival, it takes the player out of their reality and places them into a new one.
It's incredibly rare that I ever get truely drawn into a custom map.

So here's some questions for you to ponder...

Why don't more mappers make an effort with story in their maps?
Is it too much effort to write?
Is it too complex to get the entities working that tell the story?
Is story writing too hard in your opinion?

Most mappers map for gmod and make surfmaps. Think about that.
I think its mostly people being lazy / want quick results. Also, telling a decent story in a map can be difficult, especially in a game where the main character doesnt talk :p )

Do players even expect a decent story these days?
Have players become used to custom content that lacks a decent story?
Do players just not expect it?

Depends, i guess. Games without a story that arent hack n slashers usually suck donkey balls, imho. Custom content is usually aimed towards quick fun, and thus lacks story. Not saying that storyless maps suck. I think story adds a fourth dimension to games, and just like 3d games haven't killed a 2d game, so will storyless games not be killed by storyrich games. However, they have to make up for their losses.

What's the best story you've ever seen told in a custom map?
What methods were used to tell the story? NPC's, cutscenes, voiceovers, onscreen text, in-game monitors?

A map or mode? Ive never seen stories in maps. In mods plenty.
The best story in a custom map to me was probably a hl1 mod, 'point of view'. (story of hl1 from the pov of an alienslave. I remember poke346 (or w/e random number) to be a quite epic mode, but cant say anything about a story). HL2 mods: err. Ones about a strange island, nirvana or something, and then there's 'Research and Development'. It actually had quite a decent story.

What stories would you like to see told?
I was thinking a nice EP2 map telling the story of the rise of the combine would be excellent. Showing how they arrived and how it all began. Unless I've missed this and it's already been done.

Don't really have a specific story i guess. Maybe an EP3 mod would be nice, i doubt Valve will ever make it. Or, if we can think of any story, have someone remake system shock1, 2, and the neverbuild 3. that would be some awesome.

[Duke Nukem]

awesome stories create awesome games and its more worth to play it through a couple of times.

[Ashfall_2008]

It's odd. I think you could probably make a fairly basic map, with lack of detail and just basic structures, give it a fantastic story and get away with it...

I mean if you look back at games like Theif or System Shock 2, the environments were crap compared to todays standards. It was the story that made them excellent games not the visuals.

Interesting difference in peoples opinions. Keep em coming!

[RefaelBA]

Why don't more mappers make an effort with story in their maps?
Either laziness or lack of skill. I'm sure most mappers would love being able to create amazing stories.

Do players even expect a decent story these days?
Absolutely. 99% of the time I wouldn't bother with game that is mainly focused on multiplayer or some casual game mechanism. I play games for their stories, atmosphere and overall single player experience. I think that conveying a good interactive plot is something only a selected few can achieve, and they create the greatest moments in gaming.
Metro2033, Mass Effect (the first), Half Life 2, The Elder Scrolls, Dragon Age: Origins, to name the latest and greatest.

What's the best story you've ever seen told in a custom map?
HL1 had some really great single player mods. I remember those to name a few: Poke646, They Hunger, Case Closed...

What stories would you like to see told?
Anything solid with an atmosphere that sucks you in.

[cz_squishy]

Dear Esther had an amazing story

[Mighty Monk]

Why don't more mappers make an effort with story in their maps?

I'd personally put this down to multiple things. Not only does it require some effort to design a level/map that allows you to tell a story (i.e. having a believable castle environment for a story set in Medieval times), I find that the majority of people have a distinct lack of imagination when it comes to story telling.

There seems to be a pre-set story line for every genre that way too many people stick to. For example, a sci-fi story always seems to have to have well 'ard Marines, some alien race hell-bent on destroying humanity (why? Just because!) and so forth. When they do this, it is often then met with a frosty reception, i.e. "You're making a Halo clone" and some people probably don't see why they should put the effort in for that.

Do players even expect a decent story these days?

Again, personally, I expect a story-line of sorts in levels that I play. If I'm just given a level to run around in, with no goals, no real point to what I'm doing, I find I get very bored, very quickly.

In recent years, we as gamers have been very spoilt at times when it comes to story lines. When we get given games like Mass Effect or Uncharted (okay, some of you may not agree with me with my examples), where both those games have fantastic story lines and well written scripts, I guess we expect too much, so even when we are given a story line in a custom level designed by a random person, we may be partially blind to it because it's not up to the standard of what we get in retail.

That's just a theory of mine, anyhow.

What's the best story you've ever seen told in a custom map?

I can't put down an example because, as there does seem to be a distinct lack of decent story-based levels, I've not had much opportunity to try some.

What stories would you like to see told?

For me, I like sci-fi or fantasy usually. I often brainstorm various scenarios, parts of stories, that I'd like to tell to people myself through video games.

I'm quite keen on the whole Good vs. Evil themes and, while I complained about people making stereotypical story lines for their games, one other theme I really like is humanity/a nation/a group of people struggling for survival against a relentless enemy and fighting back with every last ounce of strength. A good example of this is The Lord of the Rings trilogy. That battle at the Black Gate in the last film makes me... well, tingle, almost. When Aragorn gives his speech to the men and women fighting with him, feeling himself like he isn't going to come out alive, it's actually quite inspirational.

So perhaps it's that; I'd like to see a story told that can inspire me.

[Armageddon]

I mean if you look back at games like Theif or System Shock 2, the environments were crap compared to todays standards. It was the story that made them excellent games not the visuals.

I disagree, those games were great because of their gameplay, I have been reading a lot of history on system shock 1 and 2 and how they developed it, since they were a new studio they didn't have a lot of money for tons of features and things so they had to make the core gameplay and stuck with it through the entire game. All you need is the gameplay and then you just build the levels around it. At that time the graphics were incredible and I don't think people should compare graphics to todays standards. The story was, okay I guess, it wasn't really the focus point of the game though.

Also that "you can make a terrible level and put some trippy mythological signs in it and get tons of great reviews" thing actually works pretty well. I can mention these mods doing it.

Nestlings

Radiator 1-2

Barista 2

Comatose

Attempt to Survive

All of these mods look terrible (with the exception of radiator and barista) and yet people love them, do you know why? Because it makes you feel emotion, the developers wanted people to feel things, the problem is, they can't control it if they just put some random symbols and things around a few rooms (like comatose and attempt to survive) however, these games still tell a story through the environment Nestlings being one of the better ones at accomplishing that because there were notes scattered around, most players won't actually read them, but they are still there and they told a pretty cool story. So yeah, that's what I think of mods that tell stories, there really hasn't been an amazing one besides Dear Esther.

[Sarwia]

Why don't more mappers make an effort with story in their maps?
Is it too much effort to write?
Is it too complex to get the entities working that tell the story?
Is story writing too hard in your opinion?

I don't think it's it about the effort, nor entities. From what I've seen in the modding community over the years, it's that custom maps either go with simple design / great gameplay and great design / poor gameplay. This is not entirely true about all mods/maps, but at least that's how I see it turning out more frequently. The thing one should emphasize more on is how to make a map both play well and tell a great story (emphasis on telling a story. You don't need to re-invent a Source game to do that. The map itself should be the story. By making maps that are believable and tells the player a rich story on what has happened, I think the player will be even further drawn into the maps.

So focus more on atmosphere and making the maps come alive after you think you're done with the map, and not rush into getting it out on the internet.

At least that's my two cents on the subject.

[Ashfall_2008]

Ha.. my fiancee just equated a story in a game to good porn.

You can watch a woman doing all sorts of things to herself and it's OK.. but add a nice scenario around it and you're sure to remember it with joy.

Bottom line you still get your rocks off though!

LOL...

When I say story of course it can be a complex or simple story. For example, in CS:S you have various scenarios where terrorists face counter terrorists... pretty simple set up. But I find more enjoyment playing Assault or Office than I do playing dust2. Why.. well because it just feels a little more interesting. It feels like you have something to defend and a purpose to what you are doing. Dust2 is a pretty bland map at the end of the day (quite why it's so popular I think it just purely down to peoples lack of imagination).

Left 4 Dead had great story's. You had to stop and read the grafitti on the walls to follow it but it was still very well done.

My point is you don't need to have NPC's with full face animations to tell a story. There are many ways to deliver it. Normally I think the best ways are to deliver the story while the game is running, through a tannoy announcement or in game monitors with action happening elsewhere in the map. May want to save it for a lull in the action though just so the player takes it in.

With a little imagination its very easy to tell a good story in a subtle way.

As for what makes a good story I think there will always be classic themes. Good vs Evil, the plucky underdog against the army, revenge, betrayal etc.. all these themes are as old as Homer's story's of achient Greece. The point is how you deliver it during the game. Make the player believe one thing then flip their expectations around with a nice plot twist.

Best storys in games for my money were...

Jedi Outcast (hanging Tavion off that ledge was so cool)
Theif 2 the metal age (Mission: Life Of The Party. Karas knows who you are!)
X-Wing Alliance (The Azzemeen family escape)
Freelancer (yes freelancer! I really liked that story)
Freespace 2 (jawdropping moments when huge alien ships appear out of the wormholes)
System Shock 2 (when Shodan reveals herself is just so so cool)
World Of Warcraft (Some of the hugely long quest chains were excellent)
Baulders Gate (OMG I'm Evil!)

[joe_rogers_11155]

I have spent the last two years thoroughly developing the story for my primary mod, 99 Bolts. I have collected hundreds of reference photos for the various locations. I have researched some of the most secretive locations on planet Earth (such as Iron Mountain and the Svalbard Seed Vault). I have typed up thousands of words of dialogue, exposition, story events, easter egg placements, ammunition availability, and more. I have mapped out and playtested at least 20 different maps in some form or another, primarily just to see if a particular event or situation is even plausible and representable in a Source game.

In the end, I think that most of it will be for nothing. Something tells me that it will be difficult for people to give a crap about what all is happening behind the surface of the plot, and that worries me.

[Mighty Monk]

You've spent all that time and all that hard work, and you feel that people might not give a crap about it?

Why do you think that?

[joe_rogers_11155]

its just the mindset of the kids who will end up being the primary downloaders. if its not an explosive shoot-em-up, they will grow bored. the mod currently entails a lot of wandering around in the wasteland with occasional NPC's to come across, something i'm thinking about greatly reducing in an effort to make the game easier to navigate through without getting totally lost. the thing is, i was hoping to convey lots of the story through exploring the devastation so it's like i have to make tough cuts somewhere...

[Mighty Monk]

I see!

I've just checked out your ModDB page and to be honest, you've done so much work and clearly put so much time and effort in, I'd be much more interested in seeing what YOU wanted the game to be like, not what you think some aforementioned spoilt teen wants.

Sure, you might be making it for other people, but it's still your project.