Map problems.

[Howser]

Hey people,
Its my first post here so hey to all. I've been using interlopers as a mapping resource for years, but now I've got a bug I cannot fix it seems I've got to be less anti-social and get some external help fixing this one.
Okay well over the last year I've been working on a map for firearms: source; gameplay's final and final art pass was going well Until I encountered an error that spams me with this message:
"Too many vertex format changes in frame, whole world not rendered."
some world faces Pop and it isn't a game breaker but as I've got quite a lot more detailing todo and need it fixed for our immediate release. It only occurred in two locations in the map and when no clipping out of the world. I originally assumed it was just a misplaced tool texture or some engine limit I'd hit. The past few weeks of experimentation and research have really not given me any insight to what is causing the problem. The map has since been heavily optimized, and runs well within all listed limits. It seems to be something more abstract; not one specific area but the current arrangement of areas. The only one thing that has fixed this is covering the whole map in a single dev texture. With this is mind I reduced the texture count further; far lower than that of the last working build. All light maps are at 64x, and all obvious causes have been explored. Frame rates are also fine throughout the map. I'm looking for insight into the more unusual causes of this message spaming from my understanding it can be any number of things?!
First problem area now fixed by replacing all local textures:

Noclipping. Note the 'popped' Faces in top left

Current problem location. Angel dependant.


The map uses all new textures, most with normal maps and specular, put the texture/map count was higher on a working previous build and all recent material files have been checked for errors. Tonight when I get back from work I'm going to compile without Vis then rad to try narrow the problem down. I'll post my results in a few hours.
Look forward to your insights and suggestions. Thanks
Howser

[Mr. Happy]

"It only occurred in two locations in the map and when no clipping out of the world."
You noclipped out of the world and then the world stopped rendering properly. So then what's the problem?

[Dives]

That happens when more brush geometry is visible than can be rendered by the engine. If its only happening when you noclip out, it's no big deal.

[Howser]

Excuse the poor grammar, I was in a rush. It was happening in two locations in the map, from a typical players perspective. It ALSO happens when you No clip out of the world, which is still something that is just not acceptable for me personally. I can fix the problem by replacing all the textures surrounding these problem areas with a single dev texture (like in the first shot).
If It is the amount of brush work visible how does replacing the textures remedy this? my understanding of this kind of thing very is limited.
Also, would converting brush work to models would resolve this issue?
Thanks

[Dives]

I've struggled against this error on my L4D2 campaign for a long time. Unfortunately, its poorly documented so its something modders have had to try to figure out. From what I've gathered, texinfos contribute as well. Making it all dev textured probably decreased the texinfo count.
Replacing brushes with props will definitely help, as it's fixed the problem on my campaign. Better optimization will help too. Area Portals, even in an open state, are your best friend for that.

[Epifire]

Yeah often I try and devise a high point in the middle of the map so that you should not logically be able to see the other side, and then put a area_portal in that high wall and divide the map in half.

The Source Engine seems to love compartmentalization, it runs better that way.

[Howser]

Okay thanks for the help guys. I just couldn't find any reliable info on this issue. I've still got quite a lot of detail to add with destruction and 'warring it up' but if I can get away with adding models its not really a problem. I'll have to rethink one or two points, but that's no biggie.

e Source Engine seems to love compartmentalization, it runs better that way.

I just really wanted to create something that felt open and natural, given the small size and pace of the map I didn't anticipate a issue. Oh the joys of learning the hard way, its my first map, I've had to learn level-design just for it I was just a lowly aspiring env. artist. Seems I've fallen down all the classic pitfalls!
While we're on topic I need some crits on the map anyway. I really wanted to start making the map look like a war-zone but I'm also struggling with what to do inside the castle/temple.

[LordDz]

Add more paintings and windows.

[skoften]

This is your first map? Awesome!

[Epifire]

Well a few pointers would be to add some sort of local damage to certain buildings or areas depending on what kind war-zone this is. If it if is a occupied war-zone you could stick with adding in fortifications to make it look like the occupying faction was digging in, or just stick with the preexisting condition of damage from previous battles.

Otherwise from what I can see, I think that temple could use some sort of center arch or pinnacle point in the structure to make it stand out more. If that is what you are going for anyway, otherwise I would suggest multi-layered stairs in the temple and maybe a pool of water to give it some fancy aesthetics in the temple.

Aside from that be sure to make good use of area_portals and func_occluders for better performance if you have not done so already. Information can be found in the links below...

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Func_occluder

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Func_areaportal

Hope that helps.

[SM Sith Lord]

Map looks great Howser!