Concerning vector alignment and converging geometry

[ryalho]

Hey guys and gals,

It has been a while since I was last on Interlopers.net, but I have come back in need of some help!

In these first two images, the vectors become unaligned either after I compile or when I restart Hammer. The second image shows this issue more clearly. When I create these arches, I make sure that nothing becomes out of line and yet the issue persists. In fact, I redid the entire roadway, because I thought it was my mistake the first time. I’m aware of how Hammer likes to treat complex vector shapes, but I’m not sure how these triangles are that complex.




For the last series of images, I would like to ask if it’s alright if some of the geometry intersects with each other. Will there be a significant performance hit? I usually hate having anything intersect with anything else, but with these shapes, I figured it would be better to convert them into ‘prop_details’ and let them be. What do you guys think?





... And some context!

[Dives]

The problem lies with how vmf data is stored and how hammer reads it. vmfs don't store vertex data but instead brush face data. When a map is loaded in Hammer it extends the brush faces until they meat with the other faces of the same brush, then it can determine where the vertices are. An issue with this approach is rounding errors. Angles that are too acute or too obtuse suffer from rounding errors. Its a huge pain in the ass but that's how Hammer works. You should do anything you can to avoid angles too acute (or obtuse).

[ErikKiller]

What Dives said.
func_detail still gets fucked up as far as I know.
Last chance is Propper if you get it working.
Edit:
Technically, the very last chance is ACTUALLY modelling it.

[SM Sith Lord]

To get around the rounding errors, I switch to Vertex mode with grid snap 1 and round each vertex to the nearest grid point manually. You no longer have perfectly aligned archi, but Hammer lacks the tools to really take advantage of perfectly aligned archi anyways.

[ryalho]

Thank you guys for your help!

To get around the rounding errors, I switch to Vertex mode with grid snap 1 and round each vertex to the nearest grid point manually. You no longer have perfectly aligned archi, but Hammer lacks the tools to really take advantage of perfectly aligned archi anyways.

I use the clipping tool often; especially when merging roof segments. When acute vectors become unaligned to the grid, I usually use the vertex tool, but I can never move each vector point to the grid. Sometimes a certain line segment has three points on the same segment where the third one is next to one of the end points.

What Dives said.
func_detail still gets fucked up as far as I know.
Last chance is Propper if you get it working.
Edit:
Technically, the very last chance is ACTUALLY modelling it.

Thanks for the suggestion! I had completely forgotten about Propper!

You should do anything you can to avoid angles too acute (or obtuse).

I don't know how to avoid extreme acute angles for the roof tops (unless I clip the top edge) or especially the roadway that curves down.

[SM Sith Lord]

With very careful selection of slopes, you can make vertices line up on certain grid points.

For example, a 1/3 slope would be on-grid every 3rd unit.

Alternatively, you could add extra vertices to the areas that MUST be on-grid, just make sure you don't create any concave brushes.

Btw, looking at this screenshot:


Since it doesn't look like the attic is a playable area, I would make ALL brushes up there func_detail and not even worry about the clipping. Sometimes chopping surfaces up so they are aligned is more painful than having them render as independent objects.