Source Engine 2

[Zipfinator]

It would be madness if they were to drop source, there's no way in hell they would. There are probably going to be some new in house features they'll be working on, but source isn't really an aggressively licensed engine, so I don't know how many of those tools we'll see. (Right now we don't get any of their in house tools).

Even if they call it a new engine, it'll probably just be source with a new name and a lot of new features.

Maybe they'll move away from .bsp's, .qc's and .vmt's...

[stoopdapoop]

changing file extensions doesn't amount to a new engine

I have a feeling valve doesn't directly edit their .qc's or vmt's right now anyway, and I know for a fact that they don't just use hammer (if they even use it at all). So they might give us access to their own tools.

And I think they'll stick with BSP's. But maybe I'm wrong because I saw some work by them in some Nvidia PDF about hardware tesselation. Maybe they're dropping their volume based stuff for something more surface based, so they can get some awesome tessellated environments Just a thought.

[Terr]

Maybe they'll move away from .bsp's, .qc's and .vmt's...

And I'll whine: "I just finished making the parser fully handle <feature X> of that file type!"

[nub]

And yeah, Crysis just has really shitty optimization and programming though cause there's no reason it SHOULD slow everyone's system down so much. Look at Unreal Tourney 3 and Gears of War. They look as good if not better than Crysis and they run smooth as silk.

Wat...

Crysis has like the best optimization. Have you really paid attention to what actually goes on in Crysis? EVERY plant is physics-based, down to the tufts of grass. They ALL move in the wind 100% dynamically. Take that plus all of the other advanced graphics in to account and try and find an engine that will run it all smoother than Crysis. You won't, because Cryengine 2 had great optimization and I don't doubt Cryengine 3 is twice as, if not more optimized.

Granted it may be choppy on certain builds, but of course you're not going to run it on some ancient computer. Crysis was optimized for Core2Quad and Core2Extreme processors.



Anyway, I think Valve is simply doing another overhaul on Source to give it some kick-ass new features, but nothing like a totally new engine; while making sure Episode 3 is perfect. It took Valve six years to create the original Source Engine and Half-Life 2. SIX YEARS.

[Hollow]

I literally can't imagine how amazing the engine that Half Life 3 will run on. When HL2 was released, it was leagues ahead of everything else in terms of physics, dynamic water, animation etc. Still to this day, the source engine can produce, IMO, the most convincing and expressive characters even when the engine is pretty outdated by today's standards.

EP3 will just be an update, taking all the features and effects used in L4D2 that they implemented and probably extend them slightly. I'm hoping for full dynamic shadowing...seeing as its totally possible to code in, and would look sexy as hell. Maybe higher resolution/SSBump textures and a more polished particle system...all manageable, Source is pretty flexible. You only have to look at a couple of current (unreleased) MODs like Raindrop & the effects in City 17 EP1 to see what's achievable...wishful thinking perhaps...

I'm not sure what Valve are doing, they've got all their other IP's out the way for the time being, so they've got to show the goods soon

EDIT: and yeah, I was pretty bemused by the Crysis comment. Have you SEEN it running on a HD screen maxed out?? Seriously nothing touches it. The Unreal 3 engine is nice, but remember the scale in which Crysis is rendering at!! It's stupidly pretty. PC's have only managed to just catch up with it's tech...it wasn't even feasible a few years ago to run it smooth, it's nothing to do with optimization. for example, STALKER (and even Clear SKY) were poorly optimized games when released, my brother's (at the time) cutting edge 2+Grand PC could eat Crysis up but, would lag like mad on Clear Sky if God Rays were enabled...an engine (though very nice) is clearly inferior to Cryengine 2

Though ID's new Rage engine looks rather nice, I must say

[Armageddon]

I literally can't imagine how amazing the engine that Half Life 3 will run on. When HL2 was released, it was leagues ahead of everything else in terms of physics, dynamic water, animation etc. Still to this day, the source engine can produce, IMO, the most convincing and expressive characters even when the engine is pretty outdated by today's standards.

EP3 will just be an update, taking all the features and effects used in L4D2 that they implemented and probably extend them slightly. I'm hoping for full dynamic shadowing...seeing as its totally possible to code in, and would look sexy as hell. Maybe higher resolution/SSBump textures and a more polished particle system...all manageable, Source is pretty flexible. You only have to look at a couple of current (unreleased) MODs like Raindrop & the effects in City 17 EP1 to see what's achievable...wishful thinking perhaps...

I'm not sure what Valve are doing, they've got all their other IP's out the way for the time being, so they've got to show the goods soon

LOL! Source has some very static water!

[Hollow]

ahh wrong phrasing haha . I meant dynamic effects, as in the refraction/reflection techniques ...not dynamic as in free flowing water, i haven really seen any engine that has true dynamic water (like where you could fill up a mug on then pour it down a chute or whatever)

[popcornjake]

Source will become defunct when the universe gives birth to the new generation of consoles around 2011, until then I guess we're just to expect Valve to continue with the policy of source modularity.

[TorQueMoD]

... also xp has a 3gigabyte limitation ... wich is weird... because thats only the case on a XP os... so they released a vista version so you guys could use more memory wich is to my opinion retarted...

XP doesn't have a 3 GB limitation, 32 bit operating systems have a 3GB limitation and that limitation applies for Vista and Windows 7 as well. I'm running XP 64bit with 8 GB of ram currently.

As for the HL 3 being a separate series, that's news to me... I must have missed the "consensus" that said my info was wrong, but if it IS true that will actually be quite lame in my opinion. I want Episode 3 to be the end or at least have complete closure to what's been happening since HL1. I'd love to see the series contiue later, but not if its gonna make us wait another 6 years to find out what's going on.

EDIT: I just found the article that Quotes Gabe saying that Epsiode 1 2 and 3 ARE in fact Half-Life 3.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/r_hl2ep1_pc

So unless they changed their minds, HL3 as a separate game AFTER the episodes isn't going to happen. At least not as an official continuation of Gordon's story. They're obviously going to make other Half-Life games, so HL3 is definitely going to happen at some time, but not likely in the next few years and as Gabe hints at in his video interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5VAfXpSRF8) it'll more likely be following the story of another character like Alyx.

[Hollow]

Hmm, I'm still pretty content in believing that there is going to be a logical conclusion after Episode 3, in the form of Half Life 3. Most likely in Gordon's shoes. The quote from Gabe talking about the episodes doesn't say, 'this IS Half Life 3' but this should have been. Which leaves me to interpret it more as these episodes are a big enough game packaged together to make a stand alone sequel/expansion pack. More like a continuation...not a full blown new story arc as it's set in HL2's timeline.

http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2008/02/09/half-life-2-episode-3-will-contain-valves-laundry-list.htm

http://www.destructoid.com/half-life-3-practically-confirmed-about-as-inevitable-as-the-seven-hour-war-59336.phtml

http://news.gotgame.com/half-life-3-in-the-works-next-up-half-life-2-episode-3/1684/

many leads to believe HL3 is definitely in the works, starring that speccy crowbar-wielding maniac

[TorQueMoD]

Source will become defunct when the universe gives birth to the new generation of consoles around 2011, until then I guess we're just to expect Valve to continue with the policy of source modularity.

Excuse me? New generation of consoles by 2011? Are you facking nuts??? You think MS and Sony invested litterally billions (well MS at least) into their tech only to dump it completely after 5 and 3 years???

Sony plans to have the PS3 last for 10 years at least so you're not even gonna hear about a PS4 until 2014 (few years before its launched) and even then the PS3 will overlap by at least a year of the PS4's release so you're looking more like 2017.

I'm not sure what MS's plans are, but they're definitely going to ride the 360 for as long as they can.


Ok, you've got me on Crysis not being optimized. It IS rendering a lot more than any other engine. But seriously, when a Quad Core 3.0ghz system with 8 gigs of ram and a GTX 260 can't run it maxed, its "seems" likes its not very optimized but when I think about it, you're right with all the plantlife being physics driven and the fact that the environments are so huge its pretty amazing that it will even run on current tech.

As for the Source Engine being dropped... every developer decides to upgrade their engine at some point. There was 6 years between Quake 3 and Doom 3, 4 years between Unreal Tourney Engine and UT 2k3/4 and only 3 years (GOW Xbox) from 2k3 to Unreal 3. Rage is probably gonna be out in 2010 so thats another 6 years for the next id engine and only 4 years between Farcry and Crysis.

Valve is entering the 6th year with the Source engine. Factoring in the Orange Box updates and they've really only got another year possibly 2 left of life in this beast. Chances are pretty high that they're working on a new engine already. It makes sense from a financial standpoint, a development standpoint and a consumer interest standpoint.

I love the Source engine, don't get me wrong, but its showing its age even with L4D 2. There's no reason for Valve to drop VMTs, VMFs or even BSP. They can still do great things with that technology, Unreal 3 uses BSP and it looks great.

Valve just needs to add a lot of features that aren't possible with Source. Sure, they could upgrade the hell out of the engine to really make it function a lot better. As someone else said, its simply a matter of learning what you can do with the engine. But there are some major limitations in place that they're simply not going to be able to circumvent with the current structure.

Like I said, you may not believe me, but just you wait, I bet E3 has some really cool announcements coming from Valve.

[TorQueMoD]

...I'm still pretty content in believing that there is going to be a logical conclusion after Episode 3, in the form of Half Life 3.

To Quote from the first article you linked to, "In case you’re wondering what will happen after Episode 3 is released in either 2008 or 2009. Developer Valve said it will be the last episode in the currently planned story arc, but it will not be the end of the Half-Life franchise"

And the second article, "We haven’t announced anything specific, but Half-Life won’t end at Episode Three – hang on to your crowbars! "

What that means is that they're not going to stop making HL universe games. Why the fack would they? It might as well be a licence to print money. OF COURSE they're going to make a third Half-Life game and probably (or even hopefully) a 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th.

But Episode 3 is the END of GORDON's story arc.

Half-Life: Opposing Force and Half-Life: Blue Shift are two examples of continuing a franchise without actually making an official sequel. Gabe even says this in the youtube interview I linked to. They would love to continue making games inside the HL universe. But the chances of them including Gordon are not too likely; at least not for another long while.

Anyone who thinks that just because someone at Valve says that "we're not going to end Half-Life after Episode 3" means that Gordon's story is going to be this never ending continuation of awesomeness is simply reading into the quote far to much and sorry to say, being a giddy little fanboy the equivilent of thinking that since George Lucas said he's not going to stop making Starwars means that more movies are in the works. Of course Lucas isn't going to stop starwars. Hell, he couldn't even if he wanted to, the fans would continue it and probably do a much better job than he did. Same goes for HL. The universe is never going to disappear even if Valve goes bankrupt or stops making games entirely.

[Hollow]

Actually, on a note on the console cycle. There is a nod to a new wave of consoles in late 2012/13. With the likelihood that Wii HD will be out at the end of 2010, early 2011 (to match the current gen). This information was derived from an article I read in EDGE magazine, relating to the Crytek developers saying they are readying technology for the next gen as soon as 2012 (not that that means they will be out then, but that they will have the tech ready). PS3 and the 360, didnt actually do aswell as people imagined...so I'm assuming a rush to bring out a new console is on, as both LOST money with every unit, compared to the Wii that obtained profit, and has outsold both quite substantially.

I'm not saying 'I AM RIGHT' in all this, but that I've probably read different things from you.

EDIT: but saying that now, is going back on what you originally said that there isn't going to be a HL3..and that EP 1, 2 & 3 are the 3rd game. Regardless of whether it involves Gordon or not, if there is a sequel, there is a sequel. I don't feel i need to clarify my opinion anymore, because this feels like it's going to go nowhere...

[vcool]

Honestly speaking, I could be wrong but I think there will be no HL3. VALVe realised that HL doesn't have to be the only successful franchise they make, and it seems they are having much more fun doing multiplayer stuff that gets played all the time, rather than releasing that one big SP experience.

Sure, HL is VALVe's trademark, but business is business. I am sure they will wrap the current story ark with Ep3, but I am sceptical about HL3.

[srredfire]

Recently Gearbox was saying negative things about Valve and Steam's marketplace. Which brings me to the thought; despite Valve owning the Half Life franchise, does Gearbox own rights to characters and such they made? Adrian Shepard and the likes. I really do wonder if we'll ever see him again, I'm guessing no. Gearbox doesn't and has never shown the want or need to jump back on the HL bandwagon since BS and OP4.

Also, long ago, I think when Episode 1 was going to be released, they said they planned on having 4 episodes, 3 made by Valve, and one third party one. Does anyone else remember this? Or am I imagining it. I because I could swear I remember that being mentioned. I'm just curious if that's still true, and if at the time maybe they had another company lined up to make a 4th one.