Bioshock Infinite - updated : 2/1/2013

[Ark11]

But the link at the end is even more impressive.

...my god.

[Epifire]

Now that is interesting.

[nub]

Woah...and that's a children's fantasy novel? Some high level shit right there.

[joe_rogers_11155]

@nub: i see what you did there

[Armageddon]

That's nothing.

They probably updated the first one during their five years of development and no one noticed.

[Epifire]

Likely the closest thing I see to that is that they recycled the Songbird sounds from existing sounds that were not used very much. From everyone I heard in interviews Infinite was way out there in terms of plans so I don't think the whole Songbird sounds were an intentional addition.

You just look at how much they changed in Infinite from E3 to actual release and it is very apparent they didn't really follow a specific order. Damn I still want to go to Paris, and speaking of which I love this picture cause it sums up how I feel perfectly well...

[Knights]

This is certainly what made this game so great! The conversations trying to decipher the story is really genius! I hope Irrational games does the dlc and then moves on to a System Shock 3, not sure if they own the IP but would love to see them change gears from bioshock for awhile....

[Epifire]

So while I am nuts about this game I thought I would equally express it in buying the Ultimate Songbird Edition. I'm not even going to tell you how much this costed but I will say it was totally worth it...











Now I am going to either buy or make a small shelf to sit all this stuff on.

[Syphon]

After finishing this game I couldn't do anything but think about it and read up everything! Man it really affected me so much!

This was an interesting read, But the link at the end is even more impressive.
(spoilers in the first link.)

I was reading up on the Wounded Knee Massacre on Wikipedia and I found another link between the game and Baum:

“…Six days after the bloody massacre the editor of the Aberdeen (S.D.) Saturday Pioneer wrote in his editorial, "The Pioneer has before declared that our only safety depends upon the total extermination of the Indians. Having wronged them for centuries, we had better, in order to protect our civilizations, follow it up by one more wrong and wipe these untamed and untamable creatures from the face of the earth." The author of that editorial was L. Frank Baum…”

Source: http://www.manataka.org/page1721.html

The best read about the ending of the game, I found, was http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=533205 (timelines & stuff)

[Plague]

Gotta love children's book authors.

I'm gonna be pretty disappointed now if the the first dlc isn't us playing an alternate Frank Baum as he tries to destroy the Vox Populi and free Columbia from their oppression.

[Epifire]

Well that could be very possible since the DLC is said to not be in conjunction with the ending of Bioshock. Was pissed when I heard it cause that meant I don't get to go to Paris. Damn Ken knows how to spoil my day.

[Stormy]

Well I finally played it so I can participate here. The ending was blow your mind great, but it wasn't quite on the level of Bioshock I think.

Bioshock overall reached into real life further than any other game I have played. It really made you think about every action. It also explored the concept of game design from a psychological perspective, the illusion of choice, or the illusion of the lack of choice. The finale of Bioshock slapped me in the face and said "It wasn't the character player we were messing with, it was YOU ALL ALONG". A lot like how the stanley parable played with the idea of a game being a destructive way of controlling catastrophic events and the only way to prevent them is to actually stop playing the game. Bioshock blurred the lines between playing a game and having a game play you.

I was expecting the same from Infinite, and played through the game expecting my actions to have a massive effect on the characters in the game. I usually steal from everyone in games and then kill anyone who has a problem with it. In infinite I felt so bad for the poor people in the underworld that I didn't steal from them. But this was only as a result of the first Bioshock. If I didn't expect the same sort of twist then I wouldn't have cared as much so with that in mind I don't think Infinite had as much of an effect on me, whereas Bioshock actively shaped how I play other games.

In and of itself, Infinite is a great game in every respect. I can't fault it. But I played it with Bioshock ever so slightly guiding my hand and while that didn't ruin it at all, it definitely made me expect a little more. The story could have been told in a book or movie just as well. Bioshock required the medium of video games in order to tell its story, you could never have the same effect on the player/reader/viewer via a different medium. I was looking forward to that more than anything, and it is my fault for doing that.

So I guess I would say that Bioshock still rules the roost for me and I have yet to accept that Infinite is its own game.

Here's an interesting thought:

Drowning Booker creates a paradox.

Booker accepts baptism->Liz drowns him->Booker is dead so no Bioshock Infinite->Liz doesn't exist to drown him->etc...

As a paradox, this scenario is obliterated by nature so the only remaining timelines are where Booker refuses baptism. These timelines don't involve any tampering with spacetime and everyone lives happily ever after.

So since the universe in which the game takes place is part of the paradox timelines, the game never happened. No paradoxes can exist in nature so the paradox that we played cannot possibly exist.

[Epifire]

So I guess I would say that Bioshock still rules the roost for me and I have yet to accept that Infinite is its own game.

Not entirely sure what you mean when you say that but here is a bit more on my interpretation of it.

One thing I know is that Infinite (by what the devs said) was really supposed to deviate a lot in form of how it panned out. Game play was supposed to remain the same with the weapon and vigor/plasmid combo but other then that it changed a lot. I am surprised there was any reference at all to the old Bioshock universe since I heard there wasn't supposed to be. I guess maybe I had the glare of Infinite in my eyes while I waited on it and played Bioshock for the first time. I don't necessarily see this huge difference quality wise between to two where one lies in the shadow of the other. I think Infinite was a huge risk for them to take but I think it was a great success and honestly I think it's a fine successor to the series.

My major pointers are on the character portrayal and story development for Infinite. Infinite I think managed to pull me in more where as while the story of the first was fantastic it felt like it lacked that personal touch. The biggest thing I met disappointment with in Infinite is that I sorta felt any efforts I made in the end really didn't mean a whole lot and that I really didn't have a lot of influence to change things dealt by my actions. Well that and I still wanted to go to Paris, and the whole Father/Daughter thing just felt way out of place and unexpected to me. However in the end it still made for a good story, it just dashed my personal wants into tiny little pieces. Still wanted to go to Paris!

I guess it really comes down to what you were expecting when you went in to play it. My aims of what I wanted to see in Infinite were different from that of many others so my general view on the outcome is different as well. It did change me though. I did a lot more thinking about what I wanted to do in game development and decided that character design was a better path for me after seeing what could be done with them in something like Infinite. I started playing it hoping to be sucked in and so I was utterly. Maybe I am just a sucker for a good story or maybe it was just something more personal about it. I really can't say other then I know it really struck something with me no other game has done.

So my conclusion I think it really depends on what people had expectations for when they got Infinite. Legacy fans bought it more to see a Bioshock succession and I looked to play it cause I just saw Infinite.

[Armageddon]

You know what really sucked about Infinite? It had clearly defined 'Story Moments' and 'Battle Squares'. The combat was horrid in Infinite imo. Te story was fine sure but play it again knowing the story and the combat just can't carry the game and this is the big difference between Infinite and Bioshock.

Bioshock was like smooth soup all mixed together the story and the gameplay, I could never tell what type of 'Moment' was going on, it was just a game and smooth.

In infinite it's like oil and water, the combat floats to the top and you get a tiny bit of story underneath. The combat is just a square room with two doors, one door opens when everyone in the room is dead, either you go to a story moment after or another room with faceless bad guys until the end of the game. Sure the movement itself is fluid, but the gameplay is not. I'd say Bioshock was like Deus Ex underwater and Infinte is Call of Duty in the air with the ability to jump.

[Stormy]

I hear you on the combat, I think a lot could be done to make each individual battle more interesting, in particular

the tears that elizabeth opens for you could have been used more heavily and been more of a deciding force in the battle. For instance when you summon a mosquito it lasts for about 15 seconds before being blown up and serves as an intermittent distraction. Maybe I wasn't playing on a hard enough setting but I would have liked to see a mechanic that made opening the tears create a vulnerability for the player until the tear is opened, and then once it is opened it's all awesomeness and domination until the tear closes again.

I also absolutely loved the handyman. But he was far too overpowering. I get that he was meant to be hard but he was hard to the point of "I'll just respawn until I wear him down". I loved that he was fast and frantic but he needed some sort of weakness to exploit because at the speeds he moves I could never hit his heart, and when I did it did bugger all extra damage. I ended up splashing him constantly and wasting all my bullets until he died. I think the combination of the rails, tears and a handyman could generate some really memorable battles, like the one

on the landing platform with the rail circling all the way around

I would love to see some mods where people really push these mechanics, unfortunately UE games are really difficult to decompile for mods. Maybe they'll release a mod pack or something.