new computer...what do you recommend?

[jgoodroad]

hey, I am going to upgrade my computer, I am tired of Microsoft bleeding me dry because my hamster powered desktop can't play L4D...

so I wanted to know what parts you would recommend, as I am intending to build myself a new desktop. things like the CPU and graphics card.

links are very welcome!

[whiffen]

Give me a price range

To be less specific on the actual purchase and just recommend hardware in general I can tell you this.

Processor:

AMD Phenom II X2, X3, X4
Intel i5 i7

Graphics card:

ATI 5770, 5850, 5870 or 5970

Motherboard:

ASUS, Gigabyte or MSI motherboard to fit in with the price

Memory:

Dual or Triple channel DDR3 is about as specific as it gets right now

HDD:

7200RPM Black Western Digital, SSD if the price is right

[Niserox]

Well well.. where to start...

For gaming: a little background. Your gunna need a strong graphics card, however more imortantly, a CPU. Most of the newer games coming out now-a-days love to use lots of rendering without much need for density control. Good examples of this are Assassins Creed II and GTA, with Crysis as an "older" example. The main reason why most computers are bottle-necked are because of their CPUs, they control how fast things render into game (though the graphics card can handle a lot of this), but with rendering, comes a LOT of shadowing and real time effects such as wind and rays of sunlight which are ALL controlled via the CPU.

Getting a fast CPU is definatly needed for any good computer, more then any other peice of hardware on it (and dont let anyone else tell you otherwise). My personal recommendation is AMD, i LOVE their CPUs so much, they currently have the highest performance rating and overclock rating for any CPU to date, and they can usually go high in core temperatures then intel can. They also cost less and have a very good life span. Remember, you do NOT need a quad core computer if your going over 3ghz of CPU power, a dual core at 3.0+ will do you just fine, i promise it. For a little more imformation, my old single core 2.5 overclocked gaming system used to keep up with about a 20 FPS difference in most games with my friend that ran a QUAD CORE intel. Thats right, a single core AMD with customized settings keeping up to a quad core 3.2ghz processor. i kid you not.

Next we go onto the graphics card ATI is my personal choice again. I used to be a nvidia fanboy until i found out how fast they melt and that, they seem to always have strange bugs in their software with a need for constant and medicore patching. ATI is now my choice for graphics cards and ever since i changed years ago, i have never regretted it. They take up less power then a Nvidia card, and have stronger support for a dual/triple/quad video card setup. They currently have the strongest video card rating with their new 5800 series. A little tid-bit of information too, the old ATI 2400/2600 HD series were up to competition with the nvidia 8600 series.

For RAM, its a simple procedure, DDR3 is the way go if you got money to spare, but the motherboard costs a lot too, you might even need a RAM coolant system because they do tend to be SLIGHTLY bigger and get hotter. DDR2 dual channel is the way to go if you're getting around 4 gigs of RAM. RAM isnt as important as it used to be back in the day. So 3-4 gigs of a dual channeled DDR2 RAM will do you wonders.

For motherboard design, get an ASUS or my personal fave, MSI (Micro-star). They have a LOT of overclocking power and amazing settings to really push your system without any limitations or locks.

A standard 500-600 watt power supply is good for a single video card, single HDD, and dual core system. For 2 video cards get around 900 watts, for 2 HDDs, get around 700 watts, for DDR3 memory, get around 900 watts again. Add em up and use your imagination/math skills and you'll be fine.

SOUND CARDS ARE NOT, i repeat NOT needed. They are worthless and barely have any performance increase (dispite what the companies try and tell u). Not worth it.

For heatsinking and fans, a 2 standard fans, one on the back and on the side. Copper heatsinks are almost required for any good gaming system (ESPECIALLY if you plan to overclock it) do not get anything but copper, unless your system is well vented or has some good 120mm fan instead of the regular 80mm ones.

Overall make sure your CPU is good, its where good game FPS lies nowadays. The video card is just for rendering fast, but if your CPU can't keep up with how many items there are to render with the amount of shadowing and etc needed, you WILL be bottle-necking your system, easily.

[MayheM]

If you have the money, when it comes to a video card... get the Nvidia GTX 480. that card is a BEAST!!! People go back and forth about which is better ATI or Nvidia. Simply stated, nothing ATI has right now can even touch the 480.

[1/4 Life]

If you have the money, when it comes to a video card... get the Nvidia GTX 480. that card is a BEAST!!! People go back and forth about which is better ATI or Nvidia. Simply stated, nothing ATI has right now can even touch the 480.

Nvidia GTX 480 Price: $599.99
ATI Radeon 5970 Price: $619.00
ATI Radeon 5870 Price: $399.99 (I'm including this because it beat the GTX 480 in Crysis.)

Nvidia GTX 480 Power Consumption (Full Use): 450w
ATI Radeon 5970 Power Consumption (Full Use): 444w
ATI Radeon 5870 Power Consumption (Full Use): 345w
Nvidia GTX 480 Power Consumption (Idle): 146w
ATI Radeon 5970 Power Consumption (Idle): 142w
ATI Radeon 5870 Power Consumption (Idle): 141w

Nvidia GTX 480 Temperature (Full Use): 97*
ATI Radeon 5970 Temperature (Full Use): 95*
ATI Radeon 5870 Temperature (Full Use): 41*
Nvidia GTX 480 Temperature (Idle): 57*
ATI Radeon 5970 Temperature (Idle): 55*
ATI Radeon 5870 Temperature (Idle): 27*

Nvidia GTX 480 Fan dB (Volume): 64
ATI Radeon 5970 Fan dB (Volume): 43.7
ATI Radeon 5870 Fan dB (Volume): 32
Average Leaf Blower dB (Volume): 70

I'm sorry, what? Well, whatever. Don't let me stop you from enjoying your leafblower.

[MrTwoVideoCards]

BOOM! THE END!

[jgoodroad]

...holy shit.


anyways... do you think a Radeon 5870 will be able to support the current graphics of today's titles? (mainly the ones used by valve) as well as what they (might) have set for the next source engine, or should I try to spring for the 5970?

and can anyone give me a estimate on a good CPU (as MrTwoVideoCards stated)?
perhaps a link? or if you want to go all out like 1/4 life...that would be good too.

[1/4 Life]

...holy shit.


anyways... do you think a Radeon 5870 will be able to support the current graphics of today's titles? (mainly the ones used by valve) as well as what they (might) have set for the next source engine, or should I try to spring for the 5970?

and can anyone give me a estimate on a good CPU (as MrTwoVideoCards stated)?
perhaps a link? or if you want to go all out like 1/4 life...that would be good too.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... _-19115202

A 5870 will max out just about every game on the market. Here's a benchmark in the Source Engine beings you're particular on that one:



121.57 FPS average in Left 4 Dead 2, maxed out.

[jgoodroad]

...good to hear about the 5970, didn't feel like paying 600 for a graphics card.
but I must ask, what the hell is deeplinking?

[1/4 Life]

but I must ask, what the hell is deeplinking?

My mistake, just reload the page. That post is talking about the 5870, not the 5970.

[jgoodroad]

...good to hear about the 5870, didn't feel like paying 600 for a graphics card.
but I must ask, what the hell is deeplinking?

EDIT: my bad, I missread the numbers...

[jgoodroad]

can I have some more specs on CPU's

and what is a heatsink? (I am not the most informed)

[xoqolatl]

Where to begin with you, Niserox...
(yeah thats right, it's The Great Crusade For Computer Hardware Truth again)

The main reason why most computers are bottle-necked are because of their CPUs
a LOT of shadowing and real time effects such as wind and rays of sunlight which are ALL controlled via the CPU.
they currently have the highest performance rating and overclock rating for any CPU to date

This is all wrong.
In gaming, performance scales across the whole range of video cards, from 99$ to 499$ models. It doesn't scale across the whole range of CPUs, as there are cases when a processor four times more expensive will give you the same framerates. That means you're more likely to run into a GPU bottleneck than a CPU bottleneck IN GAMING.
Shadows, both real time and pre calculated, have nothing to do with the CPU in all modern game engines and GPUs.
AMD processors do not have the "highest performance rating", whatever that might mean. Best performing desktop processor is Intel at the moment. Mind you, I would also recommend an AMD processor, BUT not because it performs the best.
Overclocking headroom varies between generations, models and single CPUs so much, you can't say "XXX overclocks better than YYY", unless you mean two specific models and have data to back up your claim.

and they can usually go high in core temperatures then intel can.
They also cost less and have a very good life span.

Core temperature means nothing. Not only you can't measure it in most cases, different models are factory specced to different max temperatures. In most cases you won't be able to overheat a CPU so that it shuts down.
Life span of a processor is more than you need. Both Intel and AMD give you a limited 3 year warranty. Most processors will work until you yourself decide to retire them.

Remember, you do NOT need a quad core computer if your going over 3ghz of CPU power, a dual core at 3.0+ will do you just fine, i promise it.

Wrong again. First, frequency is not a valid measure of performance. Second, optimal core/thread count depends on workloads. For example, most multimedia applications will scale to at least 4 cores. Most new games spawn more than 2 threads and scale accordingly.

a single core AMD with customized settings keeping up to a quad core 3.2ghz processor. i kid you not.

This just confirms what I said about GPU and CPU bottlenecking.

They take up less power then a Nvidia card, and have stronger support for a dual/triple/quad video card setup. They currently have the strongest video card rating with their new 5800 series.

Generalizations again. Certain ATI cards use less power than certain Nvidia cards, but not every ATI card takes less power than any Nvidia card. The same with performance.

you might even need a RAM coolant system because they do tend to be SLIGHTLY bigger and get hotter.

No they don't. DDR3 memory uses lower voltage and usually eats much less power than DDR2 for the same performance or capacity.

For motherboard design, get an ASUS or my personal fave, MSI (Micro-star). They have a LOT of overclocking power and amazing settings to really push your system without any limitations or locks.

Means nothing. This is true for most mid to high end motherboards, not only MSI or ASUS.

A standard 500-600 watt power supply is good for a single video card, single HDD, and dual core system. For 2 video cards get around 900 watts, for 2 HDDs, get around 700 watts, for DDR3 memory, get around 900 watts again.

BS again. Take a look at any VGA review on any respected tech site and find me a case where a whole PC with a single GPU would take 700W of power.

SOUND CARDS ARE NOT, i repeat NOT needed. They are worthless and barely have any performance increase (dispite what the companies try and tell u). Not worth it.

You don't get sound cards for perfmormance. You get them for sound quality over analog outputs and for features like Creative software.

For heatsinking and fans, a 2 standard fans, one on the back and on the side. Copper heatsinks are almost required for any good gaming system (ESPECIALLY if you plan to overclock it) do not get anything but copper, unless your system is well vented or has some good 120mm fan instead of the regular 80mm ones.

BS again. 90% of the best performing CPU heatsinks are a combination of copper base and heatpipes with aluminum fins. Most full size cases today have 120 mm fans.

Overall make sure your CPU is good, its where good game FPS lies nowadays. The video card is just for rendering fast, but if your CPU can't keep up with how many items there are to render with the amount of shadowing and etc needed, you WILL be bottle-necking your system, easily.

Aaaaand teh same BS repeated again (in hope that constant repetition will make it true?)

Sorry if that may seem impolite. I have nothing against people who don't know about PC hardware. But I cannot bear people who know too little, imagine the rest and force this imagined view upon people who know even less. Buy crap, if you want, but try not to lie to other potential buyers.

And if someone thinks that it'd be better if I gave my recommendations instead of this, your are right. I'll write something just let me rest for a moment, I'm tired of typing.

[zombie@computer]

Nice xoqolatl. I didnt bother correcting them cuz there was so much work to be done it'd be the end of me.

[skoften]

Touché