Illigal Immigration and Common Sense

[RawMeat3000]

They aren't leaving. We will NEVER make all 20 million Mexican-Americans (that's right: Americans) leave this country, that's just wrong and everyone knows it. Deportation and being a refugee is one of the worst things that can happen to a person. So, since they are not leaving, we need to give all 20 million of them amnesty. Plus think about all the income taxes they don't pay. Isn't it in all of our best interests to let them keep living here? It would be faster, cheaper, and more humane to just let them stay. I don't exactly oppose building a fence on the border, but there is a better way to stop immigration, and that is to help the Mexican government in any way we can. Seriously do you realize (George...) how easy that would be? Mexico is right there! If we gave them some money, technology, maybe build a few schools. It would cost us virtually nothing, and we would have an enormous amount of good will from them (and other countries) in the future. We should treat the rest of the world with respect and generosity; we can afford it, and one day we might not be such a powerful country anymore. What then?

Edit: I don't know how much it matters anymore, but I've just realized that I said "Mexican-Americans" when I should have said "Latin-Americans". My apologies to any who might care.

[theCommie]

You do realize that the U.S. has a vested economic interest in Latin America, and any sort of modernization/industrialization would cost the U.S. a lot of money as these countries would not be as economically enslaved to them, and hence, in this capitalist society, not an option.

Heck, that's the reason the U.S. basically occupied more than half of Latin America in the last two centuries, and with nasty Iran-Contra affairs and all that.

[Spas12]

hehe.

If we kicked all the illegal immigrants (half of which are Mexicans) out of the US, not even all of them, this country would crumble into debt so fuckign fast. Illegal immigrants are the people who supply fast, cheap labor, without them, barely any Americans would replace their jobs, and its down the tubes economic wise from their on. In my town, there are a bunch of Mexicans (illegal or not), which i mostly see in the landscaping, food, and service industries, which together, produce a shitload of revenue for the government. Seriously, we NEED them to stay in this country.

I respect what they do, because i know our economy would be fucked with them.

and besides: no illegals, no burritos!

[RawMeat3000]

Man, I really should have proof-read my rant. It was all kinds of incorrect.

Don't for get taco wagons! They're so damn greasy, one time I bit into a taco and grease came squirting out the other end. It was delicious.

[RawMeat3000]

You do realize that the U.S. has a vested economic interest in Latin America, and any sort of modernization/industrialization would cost the U.S. a lot of money as these countries would not be as economically enslaved to them, and hence, in this capitalist society, not an option.

Heck, that's the reason the U.S. basically occupied more than half of Latin America in the last two centuries, and with nasty Iran-Contra affairs and all that.

Yeah, but we invested it in all the wrong places. The war on drugs mostly. And look at how well that turned out! No, we invested our money into curing the symptom of poverty and failed to realize that there was a greater problem. We should have put our money to building a middle class in Latin America. It's too bad we don't have those kind of finances anymore. We spent all our money (and China's) on slaughter. That's what we always do, that's why there are people in the world who will kill an American on sight, that's why we need to respect the rest of the world and the people inside our borders, be they natural born or immigrants.

[Mr. Happy]

hehe.

If we kicked all the illegal immigrants (half of which are Mexicans) out of the US, not even all of them, this country would crumble into debt so fuckign fast. Illegal immigrants are the people who supply fast, cheap labor, without them, barely any Americans would replace their jobs, and its down the tubes economic wise from their on. In my town, there are a bunch of Mexicans (illegal or not), which i mostly see in the landscaping, food, and service industries, which together, produce a shitload of revenue for the government. Seriously, we NEED them to stay in this country.

I respect what they do, because i know our economy would be fucked with them.

and besides: no illegals, no burritos!

QFT!

Everyone time someone tells me they don't like the immigrants, or want to get rid of them, etc. I ask them "Do you ever eat apples? Or lettuce?" or any of a dozen kinds of produce harvested by (il)legal immigrants on American farms because people whom have been here a long time, citizens, don't want that shitty job. There's actually a huge defecit of labor going on in the South Western US, lot's of fruits and vegetable rotting on the tree, because tougher immigration laws have driven alot of labor away.

RawMeat3000, guess what, the percentage of illegal immigrants that pay income taxes is actually greater then the percentage of citizens that do! I know, it sounds strange, but according to the IRS it's true. The IRS doesn't give a shit who you are, they just want your money, so they give illegals special numbers and there are laws saying that the police can't use that information to track them down. People come here because they want a better life and to be a part of our great country, and so they actually feel obliged to pay their taxes.

Anyway, the way I see it, it doesn't matter who you are or where you are from, the moment you step foot in the USA with the intention of living here you are an American. Sounds weird, but seriously, we are a nation of immigrants. The same racism we have know against Mexicans was going on a hundred years ago against Italians, and now? Well, everyone loves Pizza!

My Father's ancestors came here 500 years ago, my mother's family 80 years ago. Is she any less of an American than he? Am I? How long to you have to be here to be an American? American is not an ethnicity, it's a group of people who live in the same area. Our families all came from somewhere else, it's all just a matter of time.

(sorry to Canada, Mexico, Bolivia, etc. for using the term "American" so loosely)

[dragonfliet]

RawMeat3000, guess what, the percentage of illegal immigrants that pay income taxes is actually greater then the percentage of citizens that do! I know, it sounds strange, but according to the IRS it's true. The IRS doesn't give a shit who you are, they just want your money, so they give illegals special numbers and there are laws saying that the police can't use that information to track them down. People come here because they want a better life and to be a part of our great country, and so they actually feel obliged to pay their taxes.

Not true. While Illegal immigrants do indeed often pay income tax, you are so wrong it hurts.

Most Americans pay income tax. Why? Because most employers make you fill out a W-4 form which automatically takes your money out.

Illegal immigrants ALSO fill out these forms, as there are more and more laws on the books that say that employers can't hire illegals. So while the employer KNOWS that the person is illegal, they don't care. The immigrant simply makes up a social security number for their W-4 and taxes are pulled out of their wages. (However, while a vast number of immigrants do this, there is also a vast amount that is paid completely under the table, skipping this.) The flipside to this is that while many immigrants are paying into social security, they do not reap any of the benefits as the number they have given doesn't belong to them. (of course, this is a very small percentage of wages.)

There was already an immigration thread where I posted a good number of paragraphs on the subject, but i can't be bothered to look it up.

~Jason

[Mr. Happy]

What's your source? Mine is the IRS. There are indeed specialized tax numbers for people whom don't have social security numbers.

And there are many more citizens than you think that don't pay their taxes, they think taxes are illegal and wrong.

What I said is correct, or, it was earlier this year anyway, when that guy I don't remember his name said it. But maybe I should take my own advice and not trust government officials.

[dragonfliet]

What's your source? Mine is the IRS. There are indeed specialized tax numbers for people whom don't have social security numbers.

And there are many more citizens than you think that don't pay their taxes, they think taxes are illegal and wrong.

What I said is correct, or, it was earlier this year anyway, when that guy I don't remember his name said it. But maybe I should take my own advice and not trust government officials.

The IRS provides specialized tax numbers for LEGAL immigrants. ILLEGAL immigrants are not in the system period, so the IRS can't track them.

Here are a few links to a paper I wrote on the subject around a year ago. I would give you more of the information that I used, but most of the articles I pulled from academic journals and you wouldn't be able to access them without belonging to a subscribing university.

http://www.cmwf.org/newsroom/newsroom_s ... _id=223668
http://www.immigrationforum.org/Desktop ... ?tabid=724
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/16/busin ... yt&emc=rss

~Jason

[luc1dox]

You do realize that the U.S. has a vested economic interest in Latin America, and any sort of modernization/industrialization would cost the U.S. a lot of money as these countries would not be as economically enslaved to them, and hence, in this capitalist society, not an option.

Heck, that's the reason the U.S. basically occupied more than half of Latin America in the last two centuries, and with nasty Iran-Contra affairs and all that.

see SPP.

We are working to eliminate our borders anyways. Mexico is rich in natural resources and the businessmen can't wait to junp all over that.

-and-

The banks have the interest in the third world countries (wasn't sure who you meant by U.S.). They make the loans to them, they collect the interest, they turn the blind eye when the money is skimmed from the gov't programs.

[Mr. Happy]

Common! We need some posts by people who hate immigrants, it's not a discussion if we all just stroke each other off with our own self-righteousness.

What's your source? Mine is the IRS. There are indeed specialized tax numbers for people whom don't have social security numbers.

And there are many more citizens than you think that don't pay their taxes, they think taxes are illegal and wrong.

What I said is correct, or, it was earlier this year anyway, when that guy I don't remember his name said it. But maybe I should take my own advice and not trust government officials.

The IRS provides specialized tax numbers for LEGAL immigrants. ILLEGAL immigrants are not in the system period, so the IRS can't track them.

Here are a few links to a paper I wrote on the subject around a year ago. I would give you more of the information that I used, but most of the articles I pulled from academic journals and you wouldn't be able to access them without belonging to a subscribing university.

http://www.cmwf.org/newsroom/newsroom_s ... _id=223668
http://www.immigrationforum.org/Desktop ... ?tabid=724
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/16/busin ... yt&emc=rss

~Jason

You blinded me with science!

Obviously my memory sucks, maybe that is what he was talking about.

Which database are the others on, my uni has all the major ones. actually, nevermind, i believe you.

[xistew13ix]

In my opinion if your are willing to come to this country and be an upstanding american citizen then i dont have a problem with that, and by upstanding american citizen i mean that you pay your taxes like everyone else, be a positive addition to your community and society, and even be willing to let your voice be heard like we all should and vote then i welcome you into america, but if you come here to skip out on your responsibilty's and rip off the the real citizens by collecting there welfare and bringing negetive influences into their lap then leave before i get the chance to kick your ass out.

The sad thing is that a lot of american citizens fit in the second catagory that i was talking about.

[RawMeat3000]

Common! We need some posts by people who hate immigrants, it's not a discussion if we all just stroke each other off with our own self-righteousness.

Maybe no one at Interlopers hates immigrants. It's not really hard to believe, I think most of America (and especially the Americans here at Interlopers) is generally liberal on social issues. Sort of a thread killer though....

But if there are any people who don't like illegal immigrants, please speak up. We will listen to your reasoned and well though out opinions.

[Sacul15]

Sorry for the mega-bump, but I strongly disagree with you. The USA did enact a immigration reform bill in 1986, which granted amnesty to any illegal immigrant who came here before 1982. After the bill was passed, there was an enormous influx of illegal immigrants. So, providing amnesty to all the illegals here now would produce a similar result, except on a much grander scale.

You mention the boost in the economy due from taxes paid by illegals (the illegals the government knows are here by the way, which according to certain estimates are only about half). This is true, but you fail to realize that the negative effects, such as the increased spending on housing, welfare, education, law enforcement, waste management, transportation improvements (the list goes on) that is necessary with the huge number of people coming to the United States. Also you fail the mention the levels of crime, health risks, and illegal drug distribution that arises from illegal immigration.

Your statement that illegal immigrants take the jobs the US citizens don't want is wrong. The only reason they have those jobs is because they are willing to do them for less money. An American citizen cannot support a family for those wages because of the costs of living here, but that money can go much farther in Mexico.

My ancestors helped build this country into the great nation it is today, as I'm sure many of yours did. Why should an illegal immigrant who has no intention of improving this country, or even in many cases making it his permanent home, share the same rights and privileges as you and I?

And if you want to get a good opinion, why don't you ask a Native American (I hate that term, by the way) if allowing illegal immigration is a good idea.

[Mr. Happy]

From the bottom up....

Uh your ancestors were immigrants too.

How long do you have to be here to be an American?

Your last sentence contradicts your entire point

The paragraph before it is really bigoted

Yes they are willing to do the shit jobs for no pay that have to be done at that pay and no one else wants to do. THats AWESOME.

Yes. All illegal immigrants are thieving raping crack smoking do-nothings.

Was the influx bad?

btw you have no experts on your side and although you have good points you also some really racist ones. I.E. U=FAIL!