Illigal Immigration and Common Sense

Chat about serious topics and issues. Any flaming/de-railing will be deleted.

Re: Illegal Immigration and Common Sense.

Postby jister on Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:29 am

RawMeat3000 wrote:They aren't leaving. We will NEVER make all 20 million Mexican-Americans (that's right: Americans) leave this country, that's just wrong and everyone knows it. Deportation and being a refugee is one of the worst things that can happen to a person. So, since they are not leaving, we need to give all 20 million of them amnesty. Plus think about all the income taxes they don't pay. Isn't it in all of our best interests to let them keep living here? It would be faster, cheaper, and more humane to just let them stay. I don't exactly oppose building a fence on the border, but there is a better way to stop immigration, and that is to help the Mexican government in any way we can. Seriously do you realize (George...) how easy that would be? Mexico is right there! If we gave them some money, technology, maybe build a few schools. It would cost us virtually nothing, and we would have an enormous amount of good will from them (and other countries) in the future. We should treat the rest of the world with respect and generosity; we can afford it, and one day we might not be such a powerful country anymore. What then?

Edit: I don't know how much it matters anymore, but I've just realized that I said "Mexican-Americans" when I should have said "Latin-Americans". My apologies to any who might care.



they're right, there is no law that say anyone has to pay income tax. evenmore asking income tax is against the constitution.

as for illegals, the concept alone is already so ridiculous ! how is it a human becomes illegal and what does that mean? that he has no right being human??
User avatar
jister
May Contain Skills
May Contain Skills
 
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 7:35 pm

Re: Illegal Immigration and Common Sense.

Postby RawMeat3000 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:39 am

Even if there isn't any law, there still is the IRS and they have real power, I hear, to make you miserable. I'm not sure if I should pay taxes once I have a job or not. Both sides of the argument are so appealing; on one hand you've got a lot of money you've saved by not paying protection services to the government, and on the other hand you have the whole not getting thrown in jail and not getting you money taken away or your property seized.

This could deserve it's own thread...
User avatar
RawMeat3000
Modelling Challenges Moderator
 
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:50 am
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Illegal Immigration and Common Sense.

Postby Mr. Happy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:24 am

1. Alot of illegals actually do pay income taxes. They are assigned special numbers by the IRS which cannot be used in immigration prosecutions

2. There is a law created by congress as vested them powers to do so by the constittion and it's ammendments establishing the IRS and income tax and etc.

3. Immigrants deserve jobs more than Americans do because they are poorer and need to feed their families and have lesser ability to do so than we do.
Image
-You've just been happified!?
User avatar
Mr. Happy
Forum Goer Elite™
Forum Goer Elite™
 
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:20 am
Location: Flyin' thru "da cloud" in the MotherShip

Re: Illegal Immigration and Common Sense.

Postby RobQ on Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:08 pm

Mr. Happy wrote:3. Immigrants deserve jobs more than Americans do because they are poorer and need to feed their families and have lesser ability to do so than we do.


That doesn't make sense. If I swapped jobs with them I would be poorer and need to feed my family more and be less able to. So they would have to give me my job back.
"You can never know that this statement is true"
RobQ
1337 p0st3r
1337 p0st3r
 
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:13 am
Location: USA

Re: Illegal Immigration and Common Sense.

Postby Mr. Happy on Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:20 am

Well, in general, on average the people that immigrate to the USA are far far worse off than anyone here.

For example, alot of people here think they are poor but they have a house and a shitty old TV and food to eat and an old beater car, and then you look at placed like Sudan, and India, some area of Mexico, etc., and you realize that you aren't poor, and it's ok your job got outsourced.
Image
-You've just been happified!?
User avatar
Mr. Happy
Forum Goer Elite™
Forum Goer Elite™
 
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:20 am
Location: Flyin' thru "da cloud" in the MotherShip

Re: Illegal Immigration and Common Sense.

Postby XenLand on Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:11 am

im going to put my 2 cents in altho i havent read every message on this thread. I do believe that latins are hardworkers and are some of the backbone of the country. But i think its becuase they appreciate the money, they could work harder in there country and recieve less payment. I dont blame the latins/mexicans for trying to do that. Its us americans that dont apprecaite the things we have, we are so materialisic, and think were better then everyone, waste gas/water and esspecaily food as if they are unlimited renewable resources.
I do believe there are better ways then deporting, Our country is pretty messed up in a lot of ways in the legal system and nonlegaly. I dont agree with mexicans/latins, breaking the law but i can't judge scince we all do it from time to time.
[19.5] Clan Join today :)
User avatar
XenLand
Been Here A While
Been Here A While
 
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:38 am
Location: Burney, A place you've never been to

Re: Illegal Immigration and Common Sense.

Postby theNotSoNinja on Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:42 am

Why Socialism?
by Albert Einstein

This essay was originally published in the first issue of Monthly Review (May 1949).


Is it advisable for one who is not an expert on economic and social issues to express views on the subject of socialism? I believe for a number of reasons that it is.

Let us first consider the question from the point of view of scientific knowledge. It might appear that there are no essential methodological differences between astronomy and economics: scientists in both fields attempt to discover laws of general acceptability for a circumscribed group of phenomena in order to make the interconnection of these phenomena as clearly understandable as possible. But in reality such methodological differences do exist. The discovery of general laws in the field of economics is made difficult by the circumstance that observed economic phenomena are often affected by many factors which are very hard to evaluate separately. In addition, the experience which has accumulated since the beginning of the so-called civilized period of human history has—as is well known—been largely influenced and limited by causes which are by no means exclusively economic in nature. For example, most of the major states of history owed their existence to conquest. The conquering peoples established themselves, legally and economically, as the privileged class of the conquered country. They seized for themselves a monopoly of the land ownership and appointed a priesthood from among their own ranks. The priests, in control of education, made the class division of society into a permanent institution and created a system of values by which the people were thenceforth, to a large extent unconsciously, guided in their social behavior.

But historic tradition is, so to speak, of yesterday; nowhere have we really overcome what Thorstein Veblen called "the predatory phase" of human development. The observable economic facts belong to that phase and even such laws as we can derive from them are not applicable to other phases. Since the real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development, economic science in its present state can throw little light on the socialist society of the future.

Second, socialism is directed towards a social-ethical end. Science, however, cannot create ends and, even less, instill them in human beings; science, at most, can supply the means by which to attain certain ends. But the ends themselves are conceived by personalities with lofty ethical ideals and—if these ends are not stillborn, but vital and vigorous—are adopted and carried forward by those many human beings who, half unconsciously, determine the slow evolution of society.

For these reasons, we should be on our guard not to overestimate science and scientific methods when it is a question of human problems; and we should not assume that experts are the only ones who have a right to express themselves on questions affecting the organization of society.

Innumerable voices have been asserting for some time now that human society is passing through a crisis, that its stability has been gravely shattered. It is characteristic of such a situation that individuals feel indifferent or even hostile toward the group, small or large, to which they belong. In order to illustrate my meaning, let me record here a personal experience. I recently discussed with an intelligent and well-disposed man the threat of another war, which in my opinion would seriously endanger the existence of mankind, and I remarked that only a supra-national organization would offer protection from that danger. Thereupon my visitor, very calmly and coolly, said to me: "Why are you so deeply opposed to the disappearance of the human race?"

I am sure that as little as a century ago no one would have so lightly made a statement of this kind. It is the statement of a man who has striven in vain to attain an equilibrium within himself and has more or less lost hope of succeeding. It is the expression of a painful solitude and isolation from which so many people are suffering in these days. What is the cause? Is there a way out?

It is easy to raise such questions, but difficult to answer them with any degree of assurance. I must try, however, as best I can, although I am very conscious of the fact that our feelings and strivings are often contradictory and obscure and that they cannot be expressed in easy and simple formulas.

Man is, at one and the same time, a solitary being and a social being. As a solitary being, he attempts to protect his own existence and that of those who are closest to him, to satisfy his personal desires, and to develop his innate abilities. As a social being, he seeks to gain the recognition and affection of his fellow human beings, to share in their pleasures, to comfort them in their sorrows, and to improve their conditions of life. Only the existence of these varied, frequently conflicting, strivings accounts for the special character of a man, and their specific combination determines the extent to which an individual can achieve an inner equilibrium and can contribute to the well-being of society. It is quite possible that the relative strength of these two drives is, in the main, fixed by inheritance. But the personality that finally emerges is largely formed by the environment in which a man happens to find himself during his development, by the structure of the society in which he grows up, by the tradition of that society, and by its appraisal of particular types of behavior. The abstract concept "society" means to the individual human being the sum total of his direct and indirect relations to his contemporaries and to all the people of earlier generations. The individual is able to think, feel, strive, and work by himself; but he depends so much upon society—in his physical, intellectual, and emotional existence—that it is impossible to think of him, or to understand him, outside the framework of society. It is "society" which provides man with food, clothing, a home, the tools of work, language, the forms of thought, and most of the content of thought; his life is made possible through the labor and the accomplishments of the many millions past and present who are all hidden behind the small word “society.”

It is evident, therefore, that the dependence of the individual upon society is a fact of nature which cannot be abolished—just as in the case of ants and bees. However, while the whole life process of ants and bees is fixed down to the smallest detail by rigid, hereditary instincts, the social pattern and interrelationships of human beings are very variable and susceptible to change. Memory, the capacity to make new combinations, the gift of oral communication have made possible developments among human being which are not dictated by biological necessities. Such developments manifest themselves in traditions, institutions, and organizations; in literature; in scientific and engineering accomplishments; in works of art. This explains how it happens that, in a certain sense, man can influence his life through his own conduct, and that in this process conscious thinking and wanting can play a part.

Man acquires at birth, through heredity, a biological constitution which we must consider fixed and unalterable, including the natural urges which are characteristic of the human species. In addition, during his lifetime, he acquires a cultural constitution which he adopts from society through communication and through many other types of influences. It is this cultural constitution which, with the passage of time, is subject to change and which determines to a very large extent the relationship between the individual and society. Modern anthropology has taught us, through comparative investigation of so-called primitive cultures, that the social behavior of human beings may differ greatly, depending upon prevailing cultural patterns and the types of organization which predominate in society. It is on this that those who are striving to improve the lot of man may ground their hopes: human beings are not condemned, because of their biological constitution, to annihilate each other or to be at the mercy of a cruel, self-inflicted fate.

If we ask ourselves how the structure of society and the cultural attitude of man should be changed in order to make human life as satisfying as possible, we should constantly be conscious of the fact that there are certain conditions which we are unable to modify. As mentioned before, the biological nature of man is, for all practical purposes, not subject to change. Furthermore, technological and demographic developments of the last few centuries have created conditions which are here to stay. In relatively densely settled populations with the goods which are indispensable to their continued existence, an extreme division of labor and a highly-centralized productive apparatus are absolutely necessary. The time—which, looking back, seems so idyllic—is gone forever when individuals or relatively small groups could be completely self-sufficient. It is only a slight exaggeration to say that mankind constitutes even now a planetary community of production and consumption.

I have now reached the point where I may indicate briefly what to me constitutes the essence of the crisis of our time. It concerns the relationship of the individual to society. The individual has become more conscious than ever of his dependence upon society. But he does not experience this dependence as a positive asset, as an organic tie, as a protective force, but rather as a threat to his natural rights, or even to his economic existence. Moreover, his position in society is such that the egotistical drives of his make-up are constantly being accentuated, while his social drives, which are by nature weaker, progressively deteriorate. All human beings, whatever their position in society, are suffering from this process of deterioration. Unknowingly prisoners of their own egotism, they feel insecure, lonely, and deprived of the naive, simple, and unsophisticated enjoyment of life. Man can find meaning in life, short and perilous as it is, only through devoting himself to society.

The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labor—not by force, but on the whole in faithful compliance with legally established rules. In this respect, it is important to realize that the means of production—that is to say, the entire productive capacity that is needed for producing consumer goods as well as additional capital goods—may legally be, and for the most part are, the private property of individuals.

For the sake of simplicity, in the discussion that follows I shall call “workers” all those who do not share in the ownership of the means of production—although this does not quite correspond to the customary use of the term. The owner of the means of production is in a position to purchase the labor power of the worker. By using the means of production, the worker produces new goods which become the property of the capitalist. The essential point about this process is the relation between what the worker produces and what he is paid, both measured in terms of real value. Insofar as the labor contract is “free,” what the worker receives is determined not by the real value of the goods he produces, but by his minimum needs and by the capitalists' requirements for labor power in relation to the number of workers competing for jobs. It is important to understand that even in theory the payment of the worker is not determined by the value of his product.

Private capital tends to become concentrated in few hands, partly because of competition among the capitalists, and partly because technological development and the increasing division of labor encourage the formation of larger units of production at the expense of smaller ones. The result of these developments is an oligarchy of private capital the enormous power of which cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society. This is true since the members of legislative bodies are selected by political parties, largely financed or otherwise influenced by private capitalists who, for all practical purposes, separate the electorate from the legislature. The consequence is that the representatives of the people do not in fact sufficiently protect the interests of the underprivileged sections of the population. Moreover, under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information (press, radio, education). It is thus extremely difficult, and indeed in most cases quite impossible, for the individual citizen to come to objective conclusions and to make intelligent use of his political rights.

The situation prevailing in an economy based on the private ownership of capital is thus characterized by two main principles: first, means of production (capital) are privately owned and the owners dispose of them as they see fit; second, the labor contract is free. Of course, there is no such thing as a pure capitalist society in this sense. In particular, it should be noted that the workers, through long and bitter political struggles, have succeeded in securing a somewhat improved form of the “free labor contract” for certain categories of workers. But taken as a whole, the present day economy does not differ much from “pure” capitalism.

Production is carried on for profit, not for use. There is no provision that all those able and willing to work will always be in a position to find employment; an “army of unemployed” almost always exists. The worker is constantly in fear of losing his job. Since unemployed and poorly paid workers do not provide a profitable market, the production of consumers' goods is restricted, and great hardship is the consequence. Technological progress frequently results in more unemployment rather than in an easing of the burden of work for all. The profit motive, in conjunction with competition among capitalists, is responsible for an instability in the accumulation and utilization of capital which leads to increasingly severe depressions. Unlimited competition leads to a huge waste of labor, and to that crippling of the social consciousness of individuals which I mentioned before.

This crippling of individuals I consider the worst evil of capitalism. Our whole educational system suffers from this evil. An exaggerated competitive attitude is inculcated into the student, who is trained to worship acquisitive success as a preparation for his future career.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals. In such an economy, the means of production are owned by society itself and are utilized in a planned fashion. A planned economy, which adjusts production to the needs of the community, would distribute the work to be done among all those able to work and would guarantee a livelihood to every man, woman, and child. The education of the individual, in addition to promoting his own innate abilities, would attempt to develop in him a sense of responsibility for his fellow men in place of the glorification of power and success in our present society.

Nevertheless, it is necessary to remember that a planned economy is not yet socialism. A planned economy as such may be accompanied by the complete enslavement of the individual. The achievement of socialism requires the solution of some extremely difficult socio-political problems: how is it possible, in view of the far-reaching centralization of political and economic power, to prevent bureaucracy from becoming all-powerful and overweening? How can the rights of the individual be protected and therewith a democratic counterweight to the power of bureaucracy be assured?

Clarity about the aims and problems of socialism is of greatest significance in our age of transition. Since, under present circumstances, free and unhindered discussion of these problems has come under a powerful taboo, I consider the foundation of this magazine to be an important public service.


Keep the red flag flying! Immigrants are humans and should be viewd and treated as equals. In saying this I still do realise that a true altruistic society can never be achived; too many basterds like Napoleon (the pig) in the world. Americans just a little bit more equal than the others? or is that unfair? associating the most powerfull country in the world with an alcoholic pig. I do like america, and i have visited and found it much to my liking, I just feel things could be done better, maybe cut out the handguns and automatics? :D
User avatar
theNotSoNinja
Regular
Regular
 
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 12:09 pm
Location: UK

Re: Illegal Immigration and Common Sense.

Postby RawMeat3000 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:25 pm

theNotSoNinja wrote:I do like america, and i have visited and found it much to my liking, I just feel things could be done better, maybe cut out the handguns and automatics? :D


I don't trust my government enough to relinquish my firearms. Not that I own a handgun or an automatic, but those two weapons are your best defense against a non-democratic regime. That it is untrustworthy and doesn't care for it's citizens and those of other countries are some of the main reasons people have railed against the American government, and now everyone is calling for Americans to give up one of the few defenses we have against it.

I love my freedom. I hate that the government is spying one me, that I can be jailed indefinitely without trial and without charges brought against me, that I can't simply go the gas station on my 21st birthday and pick up a pack of joints, so I don't want to continue the trend of my individual liberties being taken away.

The argument that guns are a serious problem, for the most part flawed, or maybe just rendered moot by the bigger picture. Sure guns make crime easier, but if it weren't guns it would be something else. Gun-related violence is just a symptom of a larger problem, and to make an issue out of just the symptom of a greater problem is stupid. It's poverty and an uneducated populace that causes crime, so before anyone rails against guns, they should think about the people using them and why they're doing what they're doing. That would be, I think, the Socialist way.
User avatar
RawMeat3000
Modelling Challenges Moderator
 
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:50 am
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Illegal Immigration and Common Sense.

Postby RobQ on Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:36 am

XenLand wrote:Its us americans that dont apprecaite the things we have, we are so materialisic, and think were better then everyone, waste gas/water and esspecaily food as if they are unlimited renewable resources.


We waste them like they were cheap. Which they are.
"You can never know that this statement is true"
RobQ
1337 p0st3r
1337 p0st3r
 
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:13 am
Location: USA

Re: Illegal Immigration and Common Sense.

Postby Mr. Happy on Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:31 am

I'm gonna have to come back and read that Einstein article, but I liked where the first couple paragraphs were going.

RawMeat3000 wrote:I don't trust my government enough to relinquish my firearms. Not that I own a handgun or an automatic, but those two weapons are your best defense against a non-democratic regime. That it is untrustworthy and doesn't care for it's citizens and those of other countries are some of the main reasons people have railed against the American government, and now everyone is calling for Americans to give up one of the few defenses we have against it.


For example, Bush has put in place mechanism's that could be used to allow a President to overstay his term. Though I doubt they will ever be used, they may be. And I suppose that is why all those redneck militias in the woods of Alabama exist.
Image
-You've just been happified!?
User avatar
Mr. Happy
Forum Goer Elite™
Forum Goer Elite™
 
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:20 am
Location: Flyin' thru "da cloud" in the MotherShip

Re: Illegal Immigration and Common Sense.

Postby Mr-Jigsaw on Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:03 pm

Mr. Happy wrote:For example, Bush has put in place mechanism's that could be used to allow a President to overstay his term. Though I doubt they will ever be used, they may be.


This may be a little off-topic, but I am curious to know what those mechanisms are. I was not aware that under any modern circumstance a president could serve for more than two terms (excluding if he was vice-president and the president became incapacitated while in office, past the two year point of course).
User avatar
Mr-Jigsaw
Sir Post-a-lot
Sir Post-a-lot
 
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:05 am
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: Illegal Immigration and Common Sense.

Postby RawMeat3000 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:29 am

Mr. Happy wrote:For example, Bush has put in place mechanism's that could be used to allow a President to overstay his term. Though I doubt they will ever be used, they may be.

Oh, that Bush...
Mr-Jigsaw wrote:This may be a little off-topic, but I am curious to know what those mechanisms are. I was not aware that under any modern circumstance a president could serve for more than two terms (excluding if he was vice-president and the president became incapacitated while in office, past the two year point of course).

Off-topicness, to an extent, is encouraged in all of my threads. That is, if the mods don't mind. I've been wanting to start a general serious discussion thread recently, maybe call it "The Random Discussion Thread" or something like that. I could rename this one...

What does everyone else think? Is off-topicness a good thing? And should I start a general discussion thread?

Edit: I've scrapped the idea of a serious discussion thread for a couple of reasons:

I don't want to create a monopoly on serious discussion, not that I'm so cocky that I think my thread will be a huge success, but I enjoy organization, and imagine how unorganized a single thread of 20 pages containing 10 different topics would be, opposed to 10 separate threads of two pages each.

Also I couldn't think of a good name. These are what I thought of before I decided to turn this thread back to what it used to be.

"The Randomly Serious Thread"
"The Seriously Random Thread"
"Random Discussions"
"Your 2 Random Cents"

It probably wouldn't have caught on anyway.
Last edited by RawMeat3000 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
RawMeat3000
Modelling Challenges Moderator
 
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:50 am
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Illegal Immigration and Common Sense.

Postby Mr. Happy on Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:44 pm

I'll have to ask my brother next time I see him, he keeps track of this stuff much better than I do. I just remember the important bits :D


It's my personal belief that not-including threads like "check out my map!" or "how to make brush?" going "off-topic" is the greatest thing ever. It's supposed to be a discussion right? And everything in the world is linked!
Image
-You've just been happified!?
User avatar
Mr. Happy
Forum Goer Elite™
Forum Goer Elite™
 
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:20 am
Location: Flyin' thru "da cloud" in the MotherShip

Re: Illegal Immigration and Common Sense.

Postby MayheM on Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:30 pm

Just for arguments sake, Happy you are so wrong... JK

But seriously, Here are my thoughts...

The plaque on The Statue of Liberty proudly states...

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

This basicly claims free pasage to all who wish to enter. However, it is placed in NY where for a very long time Ellis Island was the gateway to the nation. Liberty Island is just beside Ellis, and I assume the golden door mentioned is in refference to those on the main halls of Ellis. If this is in fact what it means, then simply put, this statement welcomes all who wish to enter as long as you do it legally. I am second generation in the states, My grandfather came over from Ireland when he was in his 20's or so. I unfortunatly never got the chance to meet him since he died when my dad was 11 years old. If I had gotten the chance I would have asked what it was like to move here. What I a saying isI am symothetic to those who want to come here. Dispite what everyone seems to think as far as this country being so widely hated, apparently it is not everyone who feels the same. I have known many imigrants, both legal and illegal, who I have worked with in the past. The ones I have met are hard workers, willing to do any job so they can make some money. Some of the jobs they take, other people who happen to be citizens would in fact not take if offered them. So our unemployment rate rises and people complain about imigrants taking our jobs, and it is a visious cycle. The minimum wage is still far too low and many people can not live on (as of July 24th) $6.55 per hour. While illegal immigrants since taxes are a non issue for them and will get 100% of the wage are more likely to be able to live off such a meager amount. Plus the fact they do not fall under the same regulations limiting the amount of hours they can work so they can rack up more hours than a citizen can. This makes illegal immigrants more apealing to employ, with no benifits, no insurance, and the ability to work them like dogs gives employers an ideal employee. Immigration in general needs an absolute overhaul. In my opinion it starts with minimum wage. If those jobs where made more appealing to citizens, illegal immigrants would have a harder time finding work here.

Anyway, I could be way off base on this but this is just my thoughts...
Image
User avatar
MayheM
Veteran
Veteran
 
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Lancaster SC

Re: Illigal Immigration and Common Sense

Postby Sacul15 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:46 am

Well, in our nations early years and up until a few decades ago, illegal immigration was good for the economy. The increased labor supply decreased the costs of goods and services and increased productivity. The result is the same today, but many other factors have changed. In the 1800's there was far less government involvement in people's lives and there was far less burden on society for having to support each of its members. Now, however, we have millions of people who contribute very little to the economy in relation to how much of a burden they are on society. In my opinion, we need to reform the immigration process so that the people who would benefit the economy (ie. those with high-tech skills and education) can immigrate more easily and those who won't can't.
User avatar
Sacul15
May Contain Skills
May Contain Skills
 
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:47 am
Location: Out Californee-way
PreviousNext

Return to Serious Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users