oilprices

[JakeParlay]

i think dr. kliener needs to make us a stable fusion reactor to make endless hydrogen ffs

[RawMeat3000]

We could have a fleet of electric cars. All we'd have to do is build loads of solar, wind, hydro, and geothermal power plants. I honestly don't see why we didn't in the first place, it just makes sense to use these things. They cost more to build, sure but they cost little to nothing to operate. You build it, leave it, and profit. You don't have to buy coal or oil from some middleman, you don't have to hire tons of workers to keep the plant going. And you get to save the future generations from your own stupidity.

I recently saw a show on the History Channel that featured (among other things) a compressed air powered car. It has a longer range than most electric cars today, and since it's powered by nothing more than air it costs about $4 to fill a tank.
http://www.theaircar.com/

If we as a country really wanted to, I guarantee we could have have 50% renewable (i.e. not needing to tangle with the middle east anymore) energy sources in ten years... But we don't want to. Change is scary.

Edit: And FUSION! Good Jesus Christ, there's fusion! Why the hell aren't investors pouring money into that!? If you put $1000 into that today, I bet you'd be a millionare in 20 years.

[zombie@computer]

We could have a fleet of electric cars. All we'd have to do is build loads of solar, wind, hydro, and geothermal power plants. I honestly don't see why we didn't in the first place, it just makes sense to use these things. They cost more to build, sure but they cost little to nothing to operate. You build it, leave it, and profit. You don't have to buy coal or oil from some middleman, you don't have to hire tons of workers to keep the plant going. And you get to save the future generations from your own stupidity.

'Green' power plants are in no way cheaper than 'grey' ones. Not even in maintenance. Offcourse if it was as easy and cheap as you describe, dont you think someone would have done so a LONG time ago? Oil and coal and gas are expensive, but not as expensive as the maintenance + backup systems needed for solar and wind. Backup? Oh, yes. Solar nor wind power are able to sustain a steady stream of power, and so must have a backup system (eg coal plant) to actually function. And since you simply cant start a plant as soon as the wind goes down, or a cloud passes by, you need to have it running 24/7 anyways. So why bother with wind or solar? All its able to do is making a 'grey' power plant run at an lower lever than without, but with double costs of maintenance, operating costs, construction, infrastructure, etc.

I recently saw a show on the History Channel that featured (among other things) a compressed air powered car. It has a longer range than most electric cars today, and since it's powered by nothing more than air it costs about $4 to fill a tank.
http://www.theaircar.com/

They've been boasting this technological masterpiece for decades, still no aircars around. First seeing, then believing imho...

If we as a country really wanted to, I guarantee we could have have 50% renewable (i.e. not needing to tangle with the middle east anymore) energy sources in ten years... But we don't want to. Change is scary.

Dont be naive. Its money, and just money. Oh, and money. Money makes the world go round, or stop. Its both the cause, and solution of all the good and bad in the world. Dont you just love it?

Edit: And FUSION! Good Jesus Christ, there's fusion! Why the hell aren't investors pouring money into that!? If you put $1000 into that today, I bet you'd be a millionare in 20 years.

20 years? haha, i doubt we will get fusion before 2050. Billions are already being spent, and we still are little further than we were in the eightees. Research is going slow, steady, but slow, however, just throwing money at scientists doesnt speed up research. Fusion is the only answer, but like a child waiting for santa, we need to be patient.

[dissonance]

Fusion?
We don't need fusion. What we need are more breeder reactors: in cities, in aircraft, in spacecraft and eventually in cars.

[Mr. Happy]

Fusion reactors are now capable of producing more energy then they consume for short periods of time after a massive kickstart.

So there are still some hurdles. Unfortunately there is only one massive scale test reactor being built currently. Also, the French plan to build one that will be economically viable, as a model, and then blow it up.

So I think we need to invest MORE money and go about it more intelligently and it COULD be possible to have at least one hooked into the grid by 2020, but it's not going to happen because people are idiots.

[RawMeat3000]

'Green' power plants are in no way cheaper than 'grey' ones. Not even in maintenance. Offcourse if it was as easy and cheap as you describe, dont you think someone would have done so a LONG time ago? Oil and coal and gas are expensive, but not as expensive as the maintenance + backup systems needed for solar and wind. Backup? Oh, yes. Solar nor wind power are able to sustain a steady stream of power, and so must have a backup system (eg coal plant) to actually function. And since you simply cant start a plant as soon as the wind goes down, or a cloud passes by, you need to have it running 24/7 anyways. So why bother with wind or solar? All its able to do is making a 'grey' power plant run at an lower lever than without, but with double costs of maintenance, operating costs, construction, infrastructure, etc.

Or the backup plant could be a nuclear reactor, a geothermal one, a dam, or a host of others. And since we can remove most of the carbon coming out of a coal fired plant now, I'm fine with coal plants. For now.

I'd bother with wind and solar power because it turns people like you and me into self-sufficient power stations, and that's something I'd love to be.

And hell yes, money makes research faster. With more money scientists are able to try out more ideas at a time, hire better scientists, build things faster, get better parts. More funding=faster research in most cases.

[Athlete{UK}]

Whilst I don't agree with Zombie on his stance of renewable = useless. He makes the bowel droppingly good point of money.

Saving the natural resources and the habitat of Earth still takes a back seat because it's not "economically viable." Of course i'm one of those hippy beatnicks who has the odd believe that we shouldn't be powerless against the mega corps and governments perpetuating this. But it's not like standing outside Number 10 with a sign saying "Oil is totally not coo' man" is going to do anything is it?

The best we can do for now is use common sense. I'm not kidding when I say something as simple as walking more often helps. I have little hope people will especially when Mcdonalds has a Drive through.

Nuclear power when managed correctly I think is an excellent source of power. Fairly clean too proving waste is managed.

As for fusion yeah we're a way off that yet.

Main reason being it takes intense amounts of energy to initiate hydrogen fusion. Creating comparable Heat to the sun (or to uncooled CPUs, right? right?) The amount of energy required to create that much heat would dwarf the amount we get out again. Cold Fusion is what we're chasing and it's a bastard to get if you can at all. Imagine trying to work out the thermo chemical processes that make up our sun and then recreating them at room temperature.

[Mango]

The reason why oil prices are so exorbintly high is because the oil supply from the middle east is being constricted. One of the pillars of the US led invasion of Iraq was the control of the oil fields. Obvious, right? But the truth is that the reason behind it wasn't to go in and grab oil to make it cheaper for you to buy, they went in to turn off the spigots. Conspiracy theory? No.

Greg Palast, an American journalist working for the BBC dug up the reports and spoke to the oil executives themselves, and audiotaped an interview where they admitted that the legislation/plans for the Iraqi government was written by them. This is mainstream. Palast also says that the 82nd airborne were/are being used by Exxon & Mobil as a forward exploration force. The price is being kept artificially high. Why? To make those who are controlling the supply billions and billions of dollars.

If you want to verify this information you can read Palasts' book Armed Madhouse.

[Dionysos]

The reason why oil prices are so exorbintly high is because the oil supply from the middle east is being constricted. One of the pillars of the US led invasion of Iraq was the control of the oil fields. Obvious, right? But the truth is that the reason behind it wasn't to go in and grab oil to make it cheaper for you to buy, they went in to turn off the spigots. Conspiracy theory? No.

Greg Palast, an American journalist working for the BBC dug up the reports and spoke to the oil executives themselves, and audiotaped an interview where they admitted that the legislation/plans for the Iraqi government was written by them. This is mainstream. Palast also says that the 82nd airborne were/are being used by Exxon & Mobil as a forward exploration force. The price is being kept artificially high. Why? To make those who are controlling the supply billions and billions of dollars.

If you want to verify this information you can read Palasts' book Armed Madhouse.

Youre still alive!

Hm, sounds interesting, and I already suspected something like this.

[BaRRaKID]

Am I the only one who thinks we are not running out of oil. The oil companies could just pretend that we are running out and suddently make a 200% profit. I personally think we have HEAPS of oil left.

They just discovered a new oil and gas deposit in Brazil, which is one of the biggest ever found (between 5 and 8 billion barrels of oil), so i don't think we will run out of oil anytime soon. Also Portugal owns 10% of that deposit, which is nice for our economy
One of the things that is not mentioned usually in this type of discussions, is factories that still use wood and coal as fuel. Wood, coal, etc pollute around 500% more than oil specially regarding the CO and CO2 emissions. From my work experience oil is not as bad as most people think, as long as the factories keep their burners in good conditions.
About alternative energies, air energies are finally kicking in here in Portugal, and in about 2 or 3 years we will be able to use them at home and then sell all the exceeding energy that we produce at home to the public line. I think this is one of the best solutions regarding alternative energies, and i hope it gets more used in the future.
I also saw and article a couple of days ago regarding electric cars. According to it major car producers have electric cars since the 80's but never mass produced them, and the ones they produced where all destroyed for some unknown reason. The article states that they where faster then most cars today, produced zero pollution and where really cheap to maintain.
A company here in Portugal says that they will start producing electric cars by 2008 which where created by a Korean company (i think) called BYD.
I'll probably get one of those once they start coming out, since i now spend around 50€ a week on gas

[RawMeat3000]

According to it major car producers have electric cars since the 80's but never mass produced them, and the ones they produced where all destroyed for some unknown reason.

Actually, the first electric car was made in the mid-1800's. And until the early 1900's electric cars were more popular than their gas-powered siblings. That's when they found heaps of oil in Texas. Good old Texas. Then George W. Bush was born.

[Khaeotixs]

Hydrogen fuel cell:

I've even DESIGNED a theoretically possible hydrogen fuel cell car. There is one problem with it: there is no material impermeable totally yet. There would have to be refills of water every so often. But in theory, the hydrogen fuel cell car could be on the market. In fact, why not make a hydrogen power station?

I mean, they use those things to power rockets, and the only waste they produce is water, which can be electrolysed down to produce, yup, you guessed it, more fuel! it's practically perpetual motion! now imagine 20 of those things running nonstop all year: 0 emmissions, after three years, %90 profit! No need to buy fuel, you manufacture it FROM YOUR WASTE.
No need for waste disposal, THERE IS NONE.

Then why not?

Well, as previously stated, we have perfectly good power stations working anyway. Why bother?

[Slutty_hoe]

Hydrogen fuel cell:

I've even DESIGNED a theoretically possible hydrogen fuel cell car. There is one problem with it: there is no material impermeable totally yet. There would have to be refills of water every so often. But in theory, the hydrogen fuel cell car could be on the market. In fact, why not make a hydrogen power station?

I mean, they use those things to power rockets, and the only waste they produce is water, which can be electrolysed down to produce, yup, you guessed it, more fuel! it's practically perpetual motion! now imagine 20 of those things running nonstop all year: 0 emmissions, after three years, %90 profit! No need to buy fuel, you manufacture it FROM YOUR WASTE.
No need for waste disposal, THERE IS NONE.

Then why not?

Well, as previously stated, we have perfectly good power stations working anyway. Why bother?

Another problem. Where do you get the energy to run electrolysis? From a coal power station or other power station types. The only problem with all these "hybrid or Hydrogen" cars is its most likely more resource expensive to get hydrogen then it is to burn petrol

[zombie@computer]

Hydrogen fuel cell:

I've even DESIGNED a theoretically possible hydrogen fuel cell car. There is one problem with it: there is no material impermeable totally yet. There would have to be refills of water every so often. But in theory, the hydrogen fuel cell car could be on the market. In fact, why not make a hydrogen power station?

I mean, they use those things to power rockets, and the only waste they produce is water, which can be electrolysed down to produce, yup, you guessed it, more fuel! it's practically perpetual motion! now imagine 20 of those things running nonstop all year: 0 emmissions, after three years, %90 profit! No need to buy fuel, you manufacture it FROM YOUR WASTE.
No need for waste disposal, THERE IS NONE.

Then why not?

Well, as previously stated, we have perfectly good power stations working anyway. Why bother?

hydrogen fuel cells are expensive batteries, nothing more.

[Mr. Happy]

Ya hydrogen fuel cells are an absolute shite technology for cars. Just like hybrids, they are too heavy, too impractible, and produce too little energy.

Although progressive hybrids are quite promising (progressive hybrids only use the gas engine to turn the alternator and only when absolutely neccessary).

What's really interesting with transportation is pure electric technology and also low emissions bio fuels. Sooo, we can turn trash into fuel, inject it with urea, and run at a low burn without a catalytic converter and it's everyting we've ever dreamed of? Great! Problem is the people who think they are environmentalists but aren't. The people who listen to 1% of what a real environmentalist says and then go on protest marches touting things that are wrong and that they don't understand.

I still think we could solve all energy problems by covering every roof in the world with solar panels.

As for pollution, cars and cows aren't the problem. Fucking cargo ships, power plants, paper mills, Texas, and India are the problem. If we streamlined and sensibil-zed the first three, and nuked the last two, we would have no pollution issues.

But the biggest energy problem is waste. And I'm not talking about turning off the lighgts when you leave a room, or recycling (which are great) I'm talking about idiots like the "United Lightning Protection Association" these people actually waste time, money, and energy warning people that lighting is bad? Trying to save the three people that die from lightning in each decade? They are a waste, and there are many organizations creating waste in the same way.

And things like napkins. I don't need fifty fucking napkins when I go to the drive thru. I need 1. 1 fucking napkin if any. Same with receipts. No one needs a fucking receipt. Imagine all the pollution, energy, and even money that would be saved in no used receipts! 99% of people just crumble them up and throw them away anyway.


I'm fed up with the inefficiency, bulkyness, and idiocy of society. We could construct a sustainable, prosperous, and awesome society if people just stopped and thinked for two seconds. And if I was elected king.