The meaning of life.

[Kubata]

Funny, I was thinking about this while on the pooper the other day.

Interlopers is a cool community, eh contemplates the meaning of life and doesn't afraid of anything.

[RobQ]

I do see a necessity of a God for the existence of our universe.

All of your arguments still read the same if you replace "god" with "tooth fairy", "Odin", "Jesus", "Ra", or "Santa Claus".

i have a hard time believing for example that; by accident silicon came into existence and formed itself into a transmitter for binary data, mounted itself onto a circuit, while the resistors and all others components did the same thing by chance at the same time, made system agreements with each other on how to interpreted the data... and so on!

To paraphrase: "You can't get here from there." But unfortunately for you, you can get here (life and human intelligence) from there (random chemicals brewing on a hot/cold earth). All we have to do is lay out one theory - no matter how unlikely, as long as it's possible - and poof your god requirement is out the window.

anyways it's a never ending discussion.

Yes, a lot has already been written by both sides. I doubt any of the writers in this thread will change their minds. Are we just arguing for the fence sitters observing?

[jister]

I do see a necessity of a God for the existence of our universe.

All of your arguments still read the same if you replace "god" with "tooth fairy", "Odin", "Jesus", "Ra", or "Santa Claus".

i have a hard time believing for example that; by accident silicon came into existence and formed itself into a transmitter for binary data, mounted itself onto a circuit, while the resistors and all others components did the same thing by chance at the same time, made system agreements with each other on how to interpreted the data... and so on!

To paraphrase: "You can't get here from there." But unfortunately for you, you can get here (life and human intelligence) from there (random chemicals brewing on a hot/cold earth). All we have to do is lay out one theory - no matter how unlikely, as long as it's possible - and poof your god requirement is out the window.

anyways it's a never ending discussion.

Yes, a lot has already been written by both sides. I doubt any of the writers in this thread will change their minds. Are we just arguing for the fence sitters observing?

ah you see I can stop... ok since they're quotes I'll react...

The first is a matter of semantics and not worth discusing. I shouldn't have to point you to the fact we couple certian concept to certian words.... If i had to, you wouldn't be able to read this, or better communication about anything (read Wittgenstein if you have trouble with this)...

on the second topic: a theory does not equal proof my friend. but you do remind me to look for an exact description about the origins of the first living organism, how it came about and its development steps. and btw chemical reactions are not random, they can only follow the laws they react to.



so if any one has some good links, giving a step by step discription on the chemi/bio/physic processes explaining the first origins of life? please put them up here.
Thx.

[Sorrow]

Yeah and if you have a good link to the creation of the universe by God post it.
Seriously, we're not scientists here, you need university grade people telling you about biochemistry and not the wiki.

[sdematt]

the meaning of life is the continuation of the species. Thus, go out and knock up several bar maids!

[Sorrow]

It just had to be included in this thread, we've deviated a bit off topic.
Let's get back to the meaning of life instead of "there is a god" "no there isn't!" there simply isn't one till proven so stop the jibber jabber.

[jister]

Yeah and if you have a good link to the creation of the universe by God post it.
Seriously, we're not scientists here, you need university grade people telling you about biochemistry and not the wiki.

lol, no i did mean that seriously; i wanna read more about the first few moments and i wasn't telling about biochemistry on wiki, but explaining the words theory and proof...
and i do belief people can learn close to anything trough self study nowadays...

the meaning of life is the continuation of the species. Thus, go out and knock up several bar maids!

anyways you're right back on topic, anybody seen idiocracy?

[Grantax]

It really sucks to 'know' that we're living in a meaningless infinity.

[RobQ]

you do remind me to look for an exact description about the origins of the first living organism, how it came about and its development steps

Try Oxygen: The Molecule that Made the World or Power, Sex, Suicide: Mitochondria and the Meaning of Life. Ha ha, I didn't remember "the meaning of life" being in the title. Anyway, I forget which one of those discusses a theory on the origin of life, but it compares primitive cell bodies to the natural chemical bubbles that form around thermal vents, and discusses how strings/layers of chemicals can form patterns that self assemble. Even if it's not right you'll be pretty close to saying "that doesn't sound impossible any more". If you're only going to read one, read the Mitochondria one, it's better by far. Neither were that tough to follow if you have a basic interest in science and chemistry - follow the "Look inside" links on Amazon to see good examples.

chemical reactions are not random, they can only follow the laws they react to

Those two things (randomness and laws) are unrelated here. Your body makes specific chemicals that are dumped into the cells to react randomly according to fixed laws. I think it's the "Oxygen" book that has hard numbers, when it discusses how rapidly a destructive oxygen radical will randomly bump into something important.

[The Wanderer]

What i do wonder why there always needs to be a "meaning" something that explains all, if you say life has a meaning, you imply that something greater must've created us with a plan in store.
People have such a hard time believing that there isn't always a meaning to explain something and i don't know why. The Manson case was a clear example of that, searching for a meaning that isn't there.

[zombie@computer]

and btw chemical reactions are not random, they can only follow the laws they react to.

so if any one has some good links, giving a step by step discription on the chemi/bio/physic processes explaining the first origins of life? please put them up here.
Thx.

Random is a term denoting a choozing process thats too complicated to grasp. For instance, whether or not your computer gives you a random number for something, is actually just a very complicated piece of software. Computers cannot generate a random number, they will just use some random vars like cpu id or cpu freq/time and do some complicated maths on them. Still, we call it random, because its too complicated to comprehend to us.

Chemical reactions are random because there are too many variables to think about when predicting them. Whether a gamma-particle causes cancer or not is completely random, yet its a simple matter of angles, collisions, the exact locations of specific molecules and atoms, protein encodings...Really with a bit of maths, and a shitload of data, you can calculate with 100% certainty whether or not youll get cancer if you go near a radioactive source for x seconds...

you want to know how life started? read a book, i doubt theres a single serious biology/chemistry book that doesnt explain it; but since im not an asshole, heres a wikilink: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primordial_sea

[jister]

bought me this one on the subject
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin's_Dangerous_Idea
well i couldn't leave it behind with a title like that

[BillyDa59]

http://www.fourmilab.ch/hotbits/
Hooray for truly random numbers!