The meaning of life.

[Forest]

The meaning of life:

[jister]

I do see a necessity of a God for the existence of our universe. if you read the quantum mechanics of the big bang for example (and the laws of entropy), it requires a divine state of order as a start. a kind of unimaginable strong order, that the order (or low entropy) needed for life to exist is still a remaining of that, as a matter of fact all physic laws as well as all chemistry and biology laws come forth from that order. these laws are a system, not an accident. a system is derived from something and can not come into existence bye chance. so what more would you need to call something God. If a creator implies that It is that, that caused life to exist, even if that means creating a system of laws and order...?

...but my obsession with a world wide satanic conspiracy, that is executing the apocalypse, could also have something to do with it.

[zombie@computer]

I do see a necessity of a God for the existence of our universe. if you read the quantum mechanics of the big bang for example (and the laws of entropy), it requires a divine state of order as a start. a kind of unimaginable strong order, that the order (or low entropy) needed for life to exist is still a remaining of that, as a matter of fact all physic laws as well as all chemistry and biology laws come forth from that order. these laws are a system, not an accident. a system is derived from something and can not come into existence bye chance. so what more would you need to call something God. If a creator implies that It is that, that caused life to exist, even if that means creating a system of laws and order...?

...but my obsession with a world wide satanic conspiracy, that is executing the apocalypse, could also have something to do with it.

its wrong to say "science cant explain it, so it must be (a) god". Thats what mankinds been doing for yonks, and do you still believe gods are responsible for storms, the sea, vulcanoes, sun, starts etc?

I also dont see why this 'system' cant exist by chance. Just because its (very very very) unlikely? Theres infinite space, infinte time, so infinte amounts of tries. Systems that are unstable will die out quickly enough, stable systems will stay forever. Like evolution. Even the randomest of randomest smallest chances will occour at some point in time and space...

its hard to comprehend though, how this can happen. Then again, i find it hard to comprehend how i can think about all of this coming from a single strip of RNA that accidentally formed in some soup a long, long time ago.

[jister]

its wrong to say "science cant explain it, so it must be (a) god". Thats what mankinds been doing for yonks, and do you still believe gods are responsible for storms, the sea, vulcanoes, sun, starts etc?

I also dont see why this 'system' cant exist by chance. Just because its (very very very) unlikely? Theres infinite space, infinte time, so infinte amounts of tries. Systems that are unstable will die out quickly enough, stable systems will stay forever. Like evolution. Even the randomest of randomest smallest chances will occour at some point in time and space...

its hard to comprehend though, how this can happen. Then again, i find it hard to comprehend how i can think about all of this coming from a single strip of RNA that accidentally formed in some soup a long, long time ago.

excuse me z@c but i meant "science is explaining it" and "it sounds close to (a) God" read the book :"The fabric of the cosmos"

as for chance, i would never belief my computer came into existence by chance, even if it had a zillion years time, not without the "hand" of a "superior" something. and that you say "infinite space, time, and opportunities" is funny in a way, because the first 2 are concept created by the physical restriction of our being. The third is a concept derived from our inability to be perfect. which is, come to think of it, idiotic to pas onto physics for example. A law works or not, it doesn't need to "try" something because that would insecure the existence of everything, of time and space itself. just imagine gravity having a "go" at it...

as for evolution, i do not discard it, but do have a truckload of question concerning it.
just to give you an example: why would a "fish", that actually functions perfect in it's habitat, decide to exchange that perfect habitat for one it, first of all; doesn't have a clue it exists and second would end his live in a jiffy??? It's "idea" of the world is water,water,water. it doesn't even know there is land, it's like imagining whats "outside" our universe and than adapt to that (imagined idea of something) to live in it??

or how come after all these millions of years the human body is still so weak and imperfect. it undergoes things like aging, viruses, it bleeds when struck, it has a million things that endanger it's existence. did evolution decide it was "good enough" at some point? or did the principle of improvement in it slowly died? existence or "creation" is far from being perfect unless it was meant to be this way, than it is a perfect system.

[Sorrow]

or how come after all these millions of years the human body is still so weak and imperfect. it undergoes things like aging, viruses, it bleeds when struck, it has a million things that endanger it's existence. did evolution decide it was "good enough" at some point? or did the principle of improvement in it slowly died? existence or "creation" is far from being perfect unless it was meant to be this way, than it is a perfect system.

I'm sorry Jister but you're really rattling out of your arse, the human body as we know it today has been around for some 10,000 years and is still evolving. In the meantime, viruses and bacteria are evolving with us, exploiting new found weaknesses etc.
It's really hard to fathom we exist by chance but it's a lot more probable than a "God".
I despise the word alone, can't we call it oogelie boogelie or something?

And we bleed when struck... does steel not melt when subjected to heat? Do planets not evaporate when close to a supernova? It's all relative. The human body has an amazing self-repair system.

[zombie@computer]

its wrong to say "science cant explain it, so it ...intelligent convo...

as for chance, i would never belief my computer came into existence by chance, even if it had a zillion years time, not without the "hand" of a "superior" something.

Why not?

you say "infinite space, time, and opportunities" is funny in a way, because the first 2 are concept created by the physical restriction of our being.

as far as current science goes space and time are infinite (well, near infinite anyways). How is this funny?

The third [...opportunities...] is a concept derived from our inability to be perfect. which is, come to think of it, idiotic to pas onto physics for example. A law works or not, it doesn't need to "try" something because that would insecure the existence of everything, of time and space itself. just imagine gravity having a "go" at it...

Gravity is an effect of mass. It can only exist if the mass itself has a stable situation. Any force is simply an interaction between different masses, it only exists if these exist anywhere. If neither of them are stable into existance, the force will not exist. This is what i mean by the evolution of the allbeing 'system'. And yea, i cant imagine there being a time and place where force and mass dont coexist, but that doesnt mean its never been or never will.

as for evolution, i do not discard it, but do have a truckload of question concerning it.
just to give you an example: why would a "fish", that actually functions perfect in it's habitat, decide to exchange that perfect habitat for one it, first of all; doesn't have a clue it exists and second would end his live in a jiffy??? It's "idea" of the world is water,water,water. it doesn't even know there is land, it's like imagining whats "outside" our universe and than adapt to that (imagined idea of something) to live in it??

Thats stupid. A fish never decided to go to land like that. There simply was a small thing different for one fish so it could go to more shallow water, hiding it from its enemies, and maybe finding the food it liked in abundance. Anyway, it thrived. Not because it wanted, but because the fish that did go to the shallows actually had a bigger chance of survival. This went on from shallows to parts outside the water, then even further onto land untill we hit the forests. Did i mention evolution was meant to take ages, or do you imagine a fish simply hopping onto land and turn into a monkey?

or how come after all these millions of years the human body is still so weak and imperfect. it undergoes things like aging, viruses, it bleeds when struck, it has a million things that endanger it's existence. did evolution decide it was "good enough" at some point? or did the principle of improvement in it slowly died? existence or "creation" is far from being perfect unless it was meant to be this way, than it is a perfect system.

Evolution is still happening all around you, it simply takes a while. Or do you think the invention of windows XP meant evolution was finished for once and for all?

[jister]

its wrong to say "science cant explain it, so it ...intelligent convo...

as for chance, i would never belief my computer came into existence by chance, even if it had a zillion years time, not without the "hand" of a "superior" something.

Why not?

you say "infinite space, time, and opportunities" is funny in a way, because the first 2 are concept created by the physical restriction of our being.

as far as current science goes space and time are infinite (well, near infinite anyways). How is this funny?

The third [...opportunities...] is a concept derived from our inability to be perfect. which is, come to think of it, idiotic to pas onto physics for example. A law works or not, it doesn't need to "try" something because that would insecure the existence of everything, of time and space itself. just imagine gravity having a "go" at it...

Gravity is an effect of mass. It can only exist if the mass itself has a stable situation. Any force is simply an interaction between different masses, it only exists if these exist anywhere. If neither of them are stable into existance, the force will not exist. This is what i mean by the evolution of the allbeing 'system'. And yea, i cant imagine there being a time and place where force and mass dont coexist, but that doesnt mean its never been or never will.

as for evolution, i do not discard it, but do have a truckload of question concerning it.
just to give you an example: why would a "fish", that actually functions perfect in it's habitat, decide to exchange that perfect habitat for one it, first of all; doesn't have a clue it exists and second would end his live in a jiffy??? It's "idea" of the world is water,water,water. it doesn't even know there is land, it's like imagining whats "outside" our universe and than adapt to that (imagined idea of something) to live in it??

Thats stupid. A fish never decided to go to land like that. There simply was a small thing different for one fish so it could go to more shallow water, hiding it from its enemies, and maybe finding the food it liked in abundance. Anyway, it thrived. Not because it wanted, but because the fish that did go to the shallows actually had a bigger chance of survival. This went on from shallows to parts outside the water, then even further onto land untill we hit the forests. Did i mention evolution was meant to take ages, or do you imagine a fish simply hopping onto land and turn into a monkey?

or how come after all these millions of years the human body is still so weak and imperfect. it undergoes things like aging, viruses, it bleeds when struck, it has a million things that endanger it's existence. did evolution decide it was "good enough" at some point? or did the principle of improvement in it slowly died? existence or "creation" is far from being perfect unless it was meant to be this way, than it is a perfect system.

Evolution is still happening all around you, it simply takes a while. Or do you think the invention of windows XP meant evolution was finished for once and for all?

these quotes are getting to long. and anyways it's a never ending discussion.
@ sorrow you are partially missing the point, vulnerability, being the top notch reason for failure of life, is around from the moment life came into existence. and it still is.

@ z@c: why not? well because i have a hard time believing for example that; by accident silicon came into existence and formed itself into a transmitter for binary data, mounted itself onto a circuit, while the resistors and all others components did the same thing by chance at the same time, made system agreements with each other on how to interpreted the data... and so on!

as far as current science goes space and time are side effects of the 3demensions we are subjected to. for example; our universe has a border (the background radiation) so makes space limited (how could it otherwise expand) the fact we can't travel faster then light makes our universe infinite to us (because the border is moving @ the speed of light) Time on the other hand is symmetrical although we do not experience it that way. in quantum physics it is perfectly possible to reverse the "arrow" of time, only it is less probable. so it is funny that not space nor time are infinite, that concept is totally irrelevant because the concept of infinity is merely a concept of human restriction.

gravity; like you say is subjected to a stable situation. what i mean here is that every law out there is interconnected with each other. you CAN NOT leave this up to chance (unless chance means: an incomprehensive complex system of rules), or we would have been long gone... (sorry you sure can, but in my pov that is even more absurd than to except there is something less restricted in existing then a human)

and as i give some of these examples, it is to give some color to a bigger view on things. read things like the fish example as an overall idea about radical evolutionary changes; like changing the fundamental basics for existence in a habitat that provides you a possibility to life (going from water to land) even if it's spread over an immense period of time. it just doesn't make sense to me and even feels like it goes in against any principal of logic.

anyways thats my over and out

[ad_hominem]

i have a hard time believing for example that; by accident silicon came into existence and formed itself into a transmitter for binary data, mounted itself onto a circuit, while the resistors and all others components did the same thing by chance at the same time, made system agreements with each other on how to interpreted the data... and so on!

And yet the brain, which has far greater 'engineering', power and potential is widely accepted to have evolved along with the rest of us. Do you have a hard time believing that?

[Cake]

The meaning of life is:
3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679 and on and on and on.

[KILLA-COW]

The computer didn't come into existence by chance? It was invented? Probably quite carefully such that it would work.

Or do you think someone dropped all the neccesary parts on the floor accidently and they merged to make a computer.

And if I've misunderstood don't bother telling me because I don't care.

[mat_de_b]

like changing the fundamental basics for existence in a habitat that provides you a possibility to life (going from water to land) even if it's spread over an immense period of time. it just doesn't make sense to me and even feels like it goes in against any principal of logic.

Dunno if you've ever studied evolution but it makes alot of sense, it is also done by chance... Its not on purpose things dont go, 'oh. now im on land i feel like changing...' It is against logic to say that 1. genes can't screw up as we see they do creating many modern illnesses and a real example of this is viruses fighting against antibiotics... and 2. that out of these screw ups beneficial things cant take place...

[jister]

i have a hard time believing for example that; by accident silicon came into existence and formed itself into a transmitter for binary data, mounted itself onto a circuit, while the resistors and all others components did the same thing by chance at the same time, made system agreements with each other on how to interpreted the data... and so on!

And yet the brain, which has far greater 'engineering', power and potential is widely accepted to have evolved along with the rest of us. Do you have a hard time believing that?

as a matter of fact, that is the point I'm trying to make.
so just to be clear and end off my comments on this subject.
Life does not exist by the grace of chance, life exists through a perfectly balance systems of rules and laws laid down in this universe. rules like the inflation of it or the speed of light, photosynthesis,... a whole bunch of physics, chemic and biologic laws to guide processes, co-operating together on the finest level and the smallest scale. Life is simply a consequence of these laws, so the question: did life exist by chance? is kinda irrelevant as to; did these laws come into existence by chance?, which I'm quite sure they didn't.

[Sorrow]

Those laws are inherent to the materials the universe is made up of, whatever happens next is chance.
We exist because of that chance.

[Dead-Inside]

Those laws are inherent to the materials the universe is made up of, whatever happens next is chance.
We exist because of that chance.

And how truely awesome it is.

Blind blief is bad, imo. Go to school.

[nub]

...who simply got really drunk and marched accross an entire continent to kill people who have absolutely no effect on their lives because lionheart had a small penis. or something like that, as i recall it did come down to sexual frustration.

Wait, what?