Televangelist calls for WW3, Nuking Middle East

[ghost12332]

1. Israel is a country whether you like it or not.

2. Israel has not (To my knoweldge of history) ever commited genocide.

3. Israel NEEDS it army BADLY. Egypt is extremely hostile to them, Iran is sponsoring terrorist groups IN Israel, not to mention the gaza strip and west bank.

Also, I personally think that Muslim extremeists are MUCH worse then Christian or Jewish ones. Why? Well to put it rather bluntly (Not that politically correct either) you don't hear about Christians or Jews tearing each other apart forming terrorist groups, commiting extreme amounts of bombings, factions, wars, etc. Christian extremeists (From my own experiences thank you) just try to force their opinions on you (6 pamphlets a week, for 6 months.) or do demonstrations, or something usually peaceful. The most that ever happens is the Riot Squad has to get called in because they got people with access to guns, angry.

[irt3hnubpie]

2. Israel has not (To my knoweldge of history) ever commited genocide.

Where did the millions of unaccounted Palestinians disappear to?

3. Israel NEEDS it army BADLY. Egypt is extremely hostile to them, Iran is sponsoring terrorist groups IN Israel, not to mention the gaza strip and west bank.

Wrong, Egypt isn't hostile towards them, in fact the pro-Western Egyptian government sees Israel as an ally. Iran only sponsors Hezbollah and Hamas, which are technically political groups. And has the US of A never sponsored much worse groups?

Also, I personally think that Muslim extremeists are MUCH worse then Christian or Jewish ones. Why? Well to put it rather bluntly (Not that politically correct either) you don't hear about Christians or Jews tearing each other apart forming terrorist groups, commiting extreme amounts of bombings, factions, wars, etc. Christian extremeists (From my own experiences thank you) just try to force their opinions on you (6 pamphlets a week, for 6 months.) or do demonstrations, or something usually peaceful. The most that ever happens is the Riot Squad has to get called in because they got people with access to guns, angry.

Extremists are all equally horrible. Christians bomb abortion centers, kill innocent doctors, and don't forget about the Crusades. Jewish extremists kill civilians innocently praying, plant car bombs outside of all girl's schools, and shoot innocents under the cover of their police. Aswell, Christians have torn eachother apart; Protestant and Catholic, committed horrible crimes, IRA, one to name. Christianity has contributed an equal amount of wars to this world, as well. Judaism is also in the process of tearing itself apart; from the Ultra-Orthodox Zionist Hasidim who support the state of Israel, to the more moderate ones, who don't agree with the idea of Zionism.

[Mr. Happy]

I think Israel is like a kid in middle-school who used to get beat up alot, started beefing up at the gym, and now is lashing out at everybody and is the new bully.

Oh well, they'll grow up one day. Only been around for 50 years or so.

At any rate, it pisses me off how much bullshit the world lets the Israeli government get away with.

Also, I know I'd be really pissed if the American Indians suddenly revolted, killed a bunch of people, and took over my country, and the world just turned a blind eye.

What needs to happen is that Jerusalem and surrounding areas needs to become it's own sovreign country, the West Bank needs to become its own sovreign country, and large explosives should be blown up by the gaza strip causing it to become a free floating island that no one can control.

I always thought it odd how in the rest of the world countries are defined by such rediculous things as nationality, but Religion? That just makes absolutely no sense. Especially in that area. The whole region is the birthplace of humanity, and modern society, as well as modern religions. Whic is obviously why they're all fighting. So it makes no fucking sense to divide it up on tribal and religious terms. No one has any more or less of a right to any of that land, in religious terms, than anyone else.

ESPECIALLY Jerusalem.

You know it's funny, hundred of years ago Jerusalem was a place where Christians, Muslims, and Jews all lived together in peace. But not anymore.

Any whoose fault is that? The Jews. And the Christians. And the Muslims.

The whole area, all of Israel, and Jordan, and Egypt, should belong to the world as a giant park. No one can lay any historical claim to it as their claims are "backed up" by hilariously badly written UNhistorical religious texts.

Bah.

Also, I personally think that Muslim extremeists are MUCH worse then Christian or Jewish ones. Why? Well to put it rather bluntly (Not that politically correct either) you don't hear about Christians or Jews tearing each other apart forming terrorist groups, commiting extreme amounts of bombings, factions, wars, etc. Christian extremeists (From my own experiences thank you) just try to force their opinions on you (6 pamphlets a week, for 6 months.) or do demonstrations, or something usually peaceful. The most that ever happens is the Riot Squad has to get called in because they got people with access to guns, angry.

Well, not anymore. Every group has it's turn at playing the douche bag. Right now it's the Muslims. During the Crusades, it was the Christians, during Vietnam it was the French, with Iraq War it's Britain, Italy, and Germany for tricking the USA, and the USA for being gullible enough to believe em.

In the 40's it was Germany and Italy and Japan.

And my history is vague, but remember when Britain basically owned and oppressed Asia?

Then there's the Spanish and South America.

Oh ya, Australia fucked over the aboriginees.

Douchebaggery is just history, every person goes through a rough patch, and since a group is just a collection of people, it goes through a rough patch to, except multiplied.

Because with angry mobs the sum is greater than the whole of its parts.

I dunno, it just pisses me off how quickly people forget and then get all outraged when some group does the exact same thing their group did a little while back.

Bleh.

TLDR: Everyone in the world is an idiot..

[BlekksPoncho]

1. Israel is a country whether you like it or not.

2. Israel has not (To my knoweldge of history) ever commited genocide.

3. Israel NEEDS it army BADLY. Egypt is extremely hostile to them, Iran is sponsoring terrorist groups IN Israel, not to mention the gaza strip and west bank.

Also, I personally think that Muslim extremeists are MUCH worse then Christian or Jewish ones. Why? Well to put it rather bluntly (Not that politically correct either) you don't hear about Christians or Jews tearing each other apart forming terrorist groups, commiting extreme amounts of bombings, factions, wars, etc. Christian extremeists (From my own experiences thank you) just try to force their opinions on you (6 pamphlets a week, for 6 months.) or do demonstrations, or something usually peaceful. The most that ever happens is the Riot Squad has to get called in because they got people with access to guns, angry.

[quopSomebody has been watching too much Fox News

To irt3hnubpie, I completely agree with all that you have said in that last post (didn't see the need to quote it). It seems ghost only goes by bad media coverage whereas you actually know the facts.

I would just like to say well done on that last post Irt3hnubpie, it has been the most accurate yet.

Same goes for Mr. Happy, I agree with most you have said except for:

What needs to happen is that Jerusalem and surrounding areas needs to become it's own sovreign country, the West Bank needs to become its own sovreign country, and large explosives should be blown up by the gaza strip causing it to become a free floating island that no one can control.

It is obviously an end to the troubles, but you have to think about the impact on the rest of the world with that amount of people moving out of that area, Europe is already heaving with immigrants, where will they go?

Well, not anymore. Every group has it's turn at playing the douche bag. Right now it's the Muslims.

Do you not think Britain and America are still playing the "douche bag"? Especially America, economic hit men etc.

During the Crusades, it was the Christians, during Vietnam it was the French, with Iraq War it's Britain, Italy, and Germany for tricking the USA, and the USA for being gullible enough to believe em.

The USA for being gullible? On what? Are you saying its on the Iraq situation? I don't quite understand what you are saying here.

I dunno, it just pisses me off how quickly people forget and then get all outraged when some group does the exact same thing their group did a little while back.

Exactly. But why have you left out France on that list of being the "douche bag"? Africa was mainly there's for some time. Americans seem to miss the whole of French history, even when it's the French being douche bags...

(Sorry for that little derail...actually most of this has been a derail, lets get back on track:)

That Christian extremist is completely wrong, saying something like that gets you on TV and in the papers, therefore you make money, exactly what he is out for.

Scientology is just Christianity but as if I came up with it one while hammered, "This is a great idea to make money, I just gotta get people to believe some space guy did some shit a while back, what's a space-like kind of hame *bleurgh* oh god I better clean that up with some...Xenu! The Miracle Puke Cleaner."

(Shit, I derailed again, sorry all).

[Mr. Happy]

Well, in regards to the Israelis and Jordanian terrorities, I'm not suggesting anyone would have to move anywhere unless they want to, only that the Israeli's stop being pissy little whiners because they can't control a group of people who don't want to be controlled, and that the Palestinians stopped being pissy little whiners for no reason.

"Economic hitmen, Britain, America"
Of course, but what we are doing now isn't as bad as what we did to the American Indians, and it's not as bad as some of the other more terrible things we have done. And Britain, ya well, whatever. They mostly fuck over themselves, since they've got this whole attitude about inequality, and that the common man is worth less than his "superiors."

Why leave out France? I didn't, I blamed them for Vietnam, and besides, I was only listing examples. Every group, including many I belong to, has a history of extreme douchebaggery.

Ok, so about the Iraq situation, and Germany Italy's and Britains involvement, and American gullibility. This could spawn a discussion in it's own right, so I wasn't sure I should bring it up. But anyway, here's how the Iraq ware was started:

The American government is retarded and the people were looking for someone to blame for 9/11. Italy and Germany had intelligence they knew was faulty that pointed to Iraq (two seperate pieces of intelligence created by two groups and individuals known to forge intelligence documents for money). Italy told Britain, Britain told the CIA (American covert intelligcne unit), Germany told the USA government. Britain finds out the intelligence is faulty and tries to cover their mistake. USA Executive branch is too stupid to ignore germany, CIA includes Britain intelligence as a foot note in a report. USA Preseident resads that as corroborating evidence to germany's faulty intelligence. USA President goes to congress quote the information without citation or warning, congress makes the correct decision to the best of the information they had available, end result: Iraq war. Morale of the story, all of our governments are stupid fucks and this mess is everyone's fault.

What's a derail? I thought the point of a discussion was to spawn new discussions?

[BlekksPoncho]

USA President goes to congress quote the information without citation or warning, congress makes the correct decision to the best of the information they had available, end result: Iraq war.

What about the Hans Blix led UN investigations into Iraq nuclear research laboratories before the USA declared war on Iraq? Did they not have any influence on the American government? Or were they already blind with money?

What's a derail? I thought the point of a discussion was to spawn new discussions?

I agree but just on the description of this forum it says any derailing will be deleted.

[Mr. Happy]

Like I said our Executive branch is a bunch of morons. BTW, in case anyone is wondering, this is one of the incidents I was talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowcake_forgery

[Deus_Mortem]

The CIA both supplied and trained extremists and non-extremists during the Cold War to fight the Russian advances. After it ended, we dropped them and left - just like that.

Not a good decision made by our government if you ask me...

[MayheM]

Hind sight is 20/20...
We all can sit here and say we should not have done this and should not have done that. Well at the time Russia was a really big threat. I am thankful that the cold war is over now.

I have often thought making the middle east the largest parking lot in the world would be a great idea. I hold a great amount of bitterness towards the Muslim extremists who took down the towers in new your, being that I grew up there and personally know people who died, fire fighters and civilians. I know it is not that answer though. Not everyone over there is bad. I hate that we "the US" is seen as the big asshole in this. The fact is there is nothing we can do to take back what has happened. If we pull troops out of he middle east, we will be seen as weak and they will attack, and if you think pulling out right now is a good idea and will get them to stop attacking the US and it's supporters you are fooling yourself.

Talking about hind sight...

Clinton had Osama bin Laden dead to rights, he needed only to give the order and that dude was dead. Instead he told the CIA to back off and observer only... That worked out great hu... I wonder if he ever thinks to himself WOW I "F"ed up!!!

[Dionysos]

Hind sight is 20/20...
We all can sit here and say we should not have done this and should not have done that. Well at the time Russia was a really big threat. I am thankful that the cold war is over now.

Im not sure that Russia was ever anything else than terrorism is today. The difference of course was that it was a country, and it actually had an army and nuclear weapons. Oh, and you knew were they were. But a war would have benefited neither Russia nor the US. It stayed cold for a reason, imo...

I do think though that quite a few people got pissed when the USSR dissolved. No more reason to spend money on "security" (ie weapons) when the enemy is suddenly gone...

I have often thought making the middle east the largest parking lot in the world would be a great idea. I hold a great amount of bitterness towards the Muslim extremists who took down the towers in new your, being that I grew up there and personally know people who died, fire fighters and civilians. I know it is not that answer though. Not everyone over there is bad. I hate that we "the US" is seen as the big asshole in this. The fact is there is nothing we can do to take back what has happened. If we pull troops out of he middle east, we will be seen as weak and they will attack, and if you think pulling out right now is a good idea and will get them to stop attacking the US and it's supporters you are fooling yourself.

Well... I dont mean to just offend you, but I think the US is seen as "the big asshole" in "this" because they/you attacked a country under false pretense. Bush threatened Saddam that he would be attacked if he didnt hand out the WMD's... the "but he was such a bad dictator he had to be removed" argument doesnt really hold up. Sure, that might have been the case but that was not the *reason* for the war. Anyways, you're right, whats done is done and even though I think one should remember the past in the right light, we have to act from now onwards.
The question whether to back out of Iraq is a cost vs benefit issue. That means, there is the problem of deciding how to measure cost and benefit, let's take lifes as an example.

To date the Iraq war has apparently claimed 3972 US. casualties.
That is not counting civilian casualties...(dead iaqis are still dead humans)
There were 2,974 dead (not including the passengers on the planes) after september 11.

Now.... taking a look at the Iraq war, I think we can safely say that destroying terrorism by invading a country like Iraq is a hard task to put it mildly. Sure, the US might have inhibited them, or even destroyed most of Al-Qaida. But that isnt the only terrorist organization, nor is Iraq the only country housing them.
Fighting terrorism by fighting terrorists in Iraq to protect the US for instance is thus questionable. *Especially* regarding the death tolls of the war compared to the actual attack, just as a comparison. The attack was massive, it was huge. The war, generally also "meant" to fight terrorism nowadays, however has already claimed more lifes than the attack of the likes it was meant to prevent. The question is whether this is a cost effective war, in terms of lifes and resources. Whether the resources, both in humand lifes and money/equipment should be invested at home in the form of defense or protection against such attacks (if that much money/investment is actually needed or if such an investment would be cost effective).

"They will attack" if you pull out now. In other words, they havent had the chance to do that yet, because you are still in Iraq? Personally, I dont think so. If they had had the will and/or power/ability to attack already, they would have done so. Iraq is not the only place terrorists run about, neither is Afghanistan and even if Iraq was completely leveled, including all its people, it would not "stop terrorism".

Even the whole sense behind the "war on terror", as its being practiced today, is questionable. More people die on the roads each year in the US than of terrorism. How much could that number of fatalities have been reduced if the same effort had been applied as to the "war on terror"? Why are people more scared (ie what is the logical reason) of terrorists than to be driving on a highway?

How much terror would rise, or how much more intense it would get if the US pulled out of Iraq, no one can say for sure. But it is very probable that their casualties in lifes would decrease, and the money could be spent at home or on other more cost effective (note, that means better) projects.

Talking about hind sight...

Clinton had Osama bin Laden dead to rights, he needed only to give the order and that dude was dead. Instead he told the CIA to back off and observer only... That worked out great hu... I wonder if he ever thinks to himself WOW I "F"ed up!!!

Im not too informed about that, or why he did not terminate Osama, but unless you know we cant say he did not have a reason. If he had no proper reason to let him be killed...



Anyways, this is a pretty long post but it pretty much sums up my view on things.