USA Political Party Association

[Meotwister]

stuff about how cool communism is

well you can look at it that one or two pricks want more because they're greedy or they just feel they deserve more as they work harder.

I agree about the ignorance people have about communism or socialism as a whole ideology but I still am against it. It seems like the one thing not factored into socialism is the degree of individuals working.. people will want to do the least possible to get by if there is no foreseeable gain to working harder... it's even obvious in shit jobs in America that people don't try to do better because there's nothing in it for them except moving up from bagger to cashier.

I'm kinda derailing the topic so sorry bout that one... next person can continue on the right track.

[Sacul15]

It's the pricks who keep the world spinning. The ones who want better lives for themselves are the inventors, the industrialists, the writers, etc. The people who want more actually do stuff. In my opinion, only the people who contribute to society below the average amount want a society where everyone is equal. The average salary in the US is about 55k, if I can remember correctly, and studies have been done that say through communism that number will raise by a couple thousand. Personally, that is not good enough for me. I'd rather work my ass off and earn much more, than take the easy route and settle for mediocrity.

[vcool]

In my opinion, only the people who contribute to society below the average amount want a society where everyone is equal.

Perhaps you meant those that get less than an average amount?

Personally, that is not good enough for me. I'd rather work my ass off and earn much more, than take the easy route and settle for mediocrity.

Money doesn't buy happiness. Don't you think there's something more than money to struggle in life for?

And congratualtions on being motivated by self-interest. Ever thought about the thousands - millions of people who are simply unable to earn enough money for living? Would you not sacrifice your own 10,000 dollars income increase in order to make these people happy? Although I am contradiciting here, money can't buy happiness, true; but at least it can buy a certain standard of life.

I am disgusted by today's world of materialism. Too bad it's the nature of man, to want more and more to satisfy his endless greed.

I'd rather work for the good of all than for the good of myself.

[Meotwister]

And congratualtions on being motivated by self-interest. Ever thought about the thousands - millions of people who are simply unable to earn enough money for living? Would you not sacrifice your own 10,000 dollars income increase in order to make these people happy? Although I am contradiciting here, money can't buy happiness, true; but at least it can buy a certain standard of life.

I am disgusted by today's world of materialism. Too bad it's the nature of man, to want more and more to satisfy his endless greed.

That's it though... you think people should donate their money.. and yes that would be a good productive thing to do for society, BUT! you can't make people do that. People have to make that choice for themselves not be forced to by the government. That's why charities and specific organizations exist to help people in substandard living arrangements. People have to have the ability to earn more by the more they do for society or a company, etc. AND reserve their right to choose to give away their extra money to less fortunate people.

From what I see though, socialism would do nothing to quell man's thirst for materialism, the need for material possessions would still be there just without the means to obtain them and be different.

[vcool]

From what I see though, socialism would do nothing to quell man's thirst for materialism, the need for material possessions would still be there just without the means to obtain them and be different.

It's more like the other way around, tbh, "man's thirst for materialism, the need for material possessions" would be have to be gone before we get onto the socialist badnwagon.

Well, back on topic I guess.

[Mr. Happy]

I think you can make a pretty strong argument that tax dollars shoudn't be spent on museums and things like that. I might even agree with you from a principle standpoint. But you can't make an argument that tax dollars shouldn't be spent on healthcare, education, roads, fireman, police, NASA etc.

In an ideal world, we wouldn't spend tax dollars on cultural institutions, but this isn't an ideal world. Things like museums are also a part of the educational system, think back to your school field trips. They are also a way to preserve our heritage for future generations. Museums help make art and science and learning available to people who can't go to school because they need to work, and also help ensure that national and historical treasures don't become locked away in private collections.

Also, these types of institutions produce research and information which is then used in the educational system.

They provide jobs for many people, not just dossents, but also spin off jobs such as truck drivers, security people, construction workers, ad agencies, etc, etc, etc. In this way they actual contribute to the economy.

It's the pricks who keep the world spinning. The ones who want better lives for themselves are the inventors, the industrialists, the writers, etc. The people who want more actually do stuff. In my opinion, only the people who contribute to society below the average amount want a society where everyone is equal. The average salary in the US is about 55k, if I can remember correctly, and studies have been done that say through communism that number will raise by a couple thousand. Personally, that is not good enough for me. I'd rather work my ass off and earn much more, than take the easy route and settle for mediocrity.

The pricks keep the world spinning the way THEY want the world to spin. That's nothing but selfishness

This is why I don't respect you. You demean your party and those that share opinions with you. Most people on the right, like MayheM and Meotwister, have good thought out reasons for believing in their stance, for you, its just that your an asshole and don't care about anyone or anything but yourself and your own greed. You think it's ok to step on people, to be selfish.

Either that, or you simply don't understand anything about the world. Some people can't "do more stuff" and some people do more than others, but don't get paid shit for it. Which may be more likely because your pretty god damn ignorant if you think Vietnam wasn't a failure. Jesus christ you should learn and think before you open your mouth.

You actually think that spending over a combined trillion dollars on Iraq and associated costs has done any good for the US? Maybe if you think spiraling towards a recession is good, I dunno. War is good for the economy ONLY when the economy isn't at capacity. You can't dump water into a full glass, it'll all splash out.


Ya know, I shoulda lightened up, that joke you made earlier didn't really detract anything from the conversation. Let me make a joke of my own,

You are walking down the street and see someone carjacked and shot fifteen times in the stomach.

A democrat would,

Call 911

Perform CPR

Take them to a hosptial

Stay by their side

A republican would,

Tell them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and then charge $10,000 dollars for the advice.

[Sacul15]

In my opinion, only the people who contribute to society below the average amount want a society where everyone is equal.

Perhaps you meant those that get less than an average amount?

In most instances it is the same. Someone who owns a business makes money while creating jobs for others to make money, helping himself and helping society.

Most people on the right, like MayheM and Meotwister, have good thought out reasons for believing in their stance, for you, its just that your an asshole and don't care about anyone or anything but yourself and your own greed. You think it's ok to step on people, to be selfish.

Not at all. I'm saying that by being selfish, you help others indirectly (see the business example above). And I do not care only about myself. When I am older and making money, I will certainly donate to organizations and charities of my choosing. It is just not governments job to enforce charity. That is called theft.

One of my favorite quotes: "Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live."

If you want to dedicate your life to helping others and be a slave to your fellow man, fine. Who am I to tell you how to live? Just don't expect me to.

[MayheM]

I am curious to hear what people think of the Michigan/Florida issue. Just becaseu they held the primary early they are not being counted. I find major issues with that. If I lived in a state who was not included in the selection process I would protest by voting for the other guy. If my Voice is not heard by my party, the other party would gain my support.

Anyway, what is everyones thoughts on this? Since it is a really big deal. If they are in fact included, Clinton has more votes.

[Sacul15]

I don't know much detail about what actually happened, but I think the votes should count and whoever decided to hold them early should be fired.

[Mr. Happy]

The major problem is that only Clinton was on the ballot in Michigan, I'm not to sure about Florida.

I don't like the idea of throwing away the votes, but it also wasn't really a vote. I think the people there should be represented, but I don't think the party officials and state legislatures should be allowed to get away with this.

I think there should be a "do-over" and I agree with Sacul15, the party officials in michigan should be fired, and the republican state legislature that forced early primaries in florida should be fired.

[MayheM]

It was my understanding that Obama withdrew from the ballot in Michigan when it was desided it was done too early. If that is not the case, why would he not be on th ballot in that state. It makes no sence. If that is in fact the case Clinton deserves the votes. Or at least a new primary election in the state. Of course it woudl be wrong to allow Obama to participate in that since he pulled his name out of the hat on that one. So, I am not really sure what they can do. If they hold another and dont let Obama run in it, he will freak, if they let him after withdrawing, Clinton will freak, and if the dont count the primaries it is widely theorised that they will vote Republican. To loos two entire states would be HUGE.

I am curious though, how did the republican state legislature force an early democratic primary? Are the primaries for democrats not held by democrates, or do they let everyone do their work for them?

[Mango]

HAHAHAHA wiki as a reference... HAHAHAHA

... hilarious, I posted that link (in the two minutes I had before I left) so he could do his own research from that point onwards. I'm not writing a scientific paper you buffoon.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 920-5.html

Q Dr. Rice, can I clarify something you said a couple weeks ago? When the August 6, 2001 memo came out, you came here and said that nobody -- I don't have the quote in front of me, but nobody could have imagined a plane being used as a weapon and being driven into one of our buildings. But the hearings revealed some intelligence --

DR. RICE: I did not know about that intelligence. You might note that report is from 1998. We came into office in 2001. And we did not know about the report.

http://usatoday.printthis.clickability. ... nerID=1660 - Drill Source

WASHINGTON — In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, the North American Aerospace Defense Command conducted exercises simulating what the White House says was unimaginable at the time: hijacked airliners used as weapons to crash into targets and cause mass casualties.

Someone is lying to you.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/usaf_911.html - Some video
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/9-11_exercises.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/agency_plan ... ilding.htm - Associated Press
http://www.rense.com/general50/fdd.htm - Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Instruction CJCSI 3610.01A (dated 1 June 2001)
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/time ... yExercises - Pretty comprehensive selection of related news.

For that matter if you are so upset and worried about they way this country is being run, MOVE…

Oh yes, brilliant, "well if you don't like living in a country with a totally criminal government - you should just move, because I LOVE IT!"

Patriotism is the love of one's country, and having will to defend it from enemies foreign and domestic. Allegiance is to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, not a bunch of crooks and 'robber barons'. The founding fathers would puke in their graves if they could hear that. Keep drinking that tasty Fluoride buddy.

Martial Law

And sorry but i laughed my ass off at your "martial-law takeover of the US" statement. I don't know what you've been smoking, but i want in.

You admittedly laugh at the idea of a martial law take over. Have you watched the militarization of the police over the last 15 years? Have you seen the numbers on PTSD afflicted Iraq veterans coming back to America to be enforcement officers? Have you seen the executive orders and legislation that consolidate almost all power into the executive branch? Have you seen the articles about the issuance of assault rifles to beat cops? Have you seen the enormous increase in tazer use via the police? Have you noticed the abolishment of posse comitatus, and do you even know what it is? Have you seen the Torch teams patrolling NYC subway system? Have you seen the black, unmarked uniforms? Do you know that they now recruit aggravated felons in the Police? Have you had your DNA swabbed at roadblocks, then uploaded to an illegal government database? Have you seen cops being trained to illegally take your guns? Have you seen the FEMA camps? Have you seen the DHS Fusion Centers? Have you seen the SPP and NAFTA documents that state usage of foreign military on US soil? Do you know what it means when certain thug police say that all crime is terrorism? Secret trials, secret arrests, secret torture and execution - is that freedom?

The answer to all of these questions are undoubtedly "No". You have NO IDEA what it means to have foreign military troops used on US soil to police the domestic population. You are ignorant of the Roman Empire and the military tactics and methodologies used to sustain and solidify it. You are ignorant of Hitler's rise to power, and the processes leading to the establishment of the Brown Shirts and SS. You are ignorant of the methodologies used to enact the Soviet police state and gulag systems. You are ignorant even of why the American revolution took place (have you ever read the American Constitution & Bill of Rights?) (saying 'slavery' earns punches). I know this because if you were not ignorant of all: you would not laugh. You think you know it all: just another 'bred to be a slave' smart ass who doesn't even know which end is up. THIS is why you have no historical perspective, and THIS is why you are doomed to repeat history unless you wake-the-fuck-up, mobilize and fight the NWO.

There are countless other facets of global control that hook into the martial law question, there are countless other articles of legislature, legislative precedent, and smoking-gun documents that show what I'm telling you. The problem is, you see one thing that almost seems almost reasonable and you rationalize it away. When you follow the news and actively seek it out, these tiny pieces add up to a horrifying picture. You don't actively seek it out because you are afraid. You are afraid of what you might find, you are afraid of going against the grain of the propagandist history we have been fed, but mostly you are afraid of the responsibility placed upon you if you find it to be true. You are afraid you will have to leave your comfort zone behind a PC and actually DO something about it. You fear for your life because your moral compass has been made screwy by society and you have been conditioned to be a slave.

But I know that deep down in your subconscious, your mind, your heart, your soul, something tells ALL OF YOU that what I'm saying is truth. You can feel instinctively like an animal the threat to our species. You all know that there's something very wrong with our world, but you rationalize and pander to the weaknesses that are inherent in us all. Yet you wonder why you're all so miserable. You block it out, you disconnect and numb your emotional responses; make yourself cold to the plight of the suffering. You convince yourselves that you are small and of no import to the great scheme of things to minimize your responsibility to our species.

Some of you are nodding to what I'm saying, my words interface with you on an emotional level and you understand. The rest of you laugh in your faux superiority, throwing your mental constructs against my words. Please look at what I'm telling you, do some reading and some research - that is all that has ever been required. Your biological system will take care of the rest, if you let it.

Research:
PDD-51, John Warner Defense Authorization Act
Military Commissions Act 2006
Rebuilding America's Defenses

*"KLSA story on martial law" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK2g0TGaAZA
(Note: The clergy response team is organised and funded by the CIA. If you think it's a brilliant idea to have the CIA paying preachers to tell their flocks to 'give up your guns and rights, then go to FEMA camps', then you're too far gone to be of any use to anyone but the power-elite. Just remember we told you it would happen, when you're flopping around dying from the bioweapons attack or being killed in the death camps, I hope you realize it and cry your fucking guts out. You're pathetic. You the love destruction of this country, some of you. I know many of you would fight this, but you can't bring yourselves to believe it or do the reading required to validate it. There is something to all of this, look into it and stop being schmucks.

Communism
Happy is right when he says Communism doesn't scale: it only works when all members have vested self interest in the egalitarian stability of the group. Once the group exceeds a reasonable size, hierarchy and bureaucracy start to infiltrate the system in a massive way (this is especially true for governmental forms), once you have the huge 3rd party interests that inevitably come with govt, the system is then set-up for bribery and corruption. Socialist/centralist systems only work if sweethearts run things, if crooks get into power it's a fast, slippery slope downwards.

[The Wanderer]

You admittedly laugh at the idea of a martial law take over. Have you watched the militarization of the police over the last 15 years? Have you seen the numbers on PTSD afflicted Iraq veterans coming back to America to be enforcement officers? Have you seen the executive orders and legislation that consolidate almost all power into the executive branch? Have you seen the articles about the issuance of assault rifles to beat cops? Have you seen the enormous increase in tazer use via the police? Have you noticed the abolishment of posse comitatus, and do you even know what it is? Have you seen the Torch teams patrolling NYC subway system? Have you seen the black, unmarked uniforms? Do you know that they now recruit aggravated felons in the Police? Have you had your DNA swabbed at roadblocks, then uploaded to an illegal government database? Have you seen cops being trained to illegally take your guns? Have you seen the FEMA camps? Have you seen the DHS Fusion Centers? Have you seen the SPP and NAFTA documents that state usage of foreign military on US soil? Do you know what it means when certain thug police say that all crime is terrorism? Secret trials, secret arrests, secret torture and execution - is that freedom?

First of i never claimed America is as free as it promotes to be, like a lot of things in life, it's a dream. I know that America has increased it's police force over the course of the last few years, but if you see what kind of crimes that have been commited in the recent years, disturbing crimes, and increased violence towards police officers any government official would be skullfucked not to increase their police force.

The answer to all of these questions are undoubtedly "No". You have NO IDEA what it means to have foreign military troops used on US soil to police the domestic population. You are ignorant of the Roman Empire and the military tactics and methodologies used to sustain and solidify it. You are ignorant of Hitler's rise to power, and the processes leading to the establishment of the Brown Shirts and SS. You are ignorant of the methodologies used to enact the Soviet police state and gulag systems. You are ignorant even of why the American revolution took place (have you ever read the American Constitution & Bill of Rights?) (saying 'slavery' earns punches). I know this because if you were not ignorant of all: you would not laugh. You think you know it all: just another 'bred to be a slave' smart ass who doesn't even know which end is up. THIS is why you have no historical perspective, and THIS is why you are doomed to repeat history unless you wake-the-fuck-up, mobilize and fight the NWO.

Roman empire their control was basicaly supress the areas they conquered and keep their own empoverished citizens happy by feeding them.

i am ignorant of Hitlers rise to power? whats this? another personal attack where you cannot hardly even know if thats true or not? My history teacher will love it how you just bashed 3 years of his work.

I'm ignorant of the systems the Soviets used to rise to power? wow thanks my dutch teacher will gladly arguement on that seeing i did a written report on it 2 years ago...

American Revolution heres some causes for you:

1. taxes imposed on the colonist by England to pay off the French - Indian War debt.
2. taxation without representation
3. Colonists wanted the Indian land but couldn't because Britain didn't wanted to tear up the land treaties.
4. They wanted to trade with other countries.
5. The Enlightenment (look it up if you dont know what it is)
6. Greed (ex. sugar act, merchants were firmly against that)

My history teacher will, again, love how you just bashed another year of his work.

next time before you start acusing me of ignorance of history, you should first establish that fact. Now lay off the personal attacks as i'm growing quite tired of your attempts to say things that aren't true and say them as if they were. How could you ever know even a tiny bit of my knowledge of history if you have never spoken to me about it?

It's funny you are bashing my knowledge of history after your little statement about the middle east whereas 1 minute of searching immediatly refuted your claim. Here's your statement if you wouldn't remember it:

they want to end hundreds of years of colonial imperialism perpetrated by western governments

they is referring to the middle east btw.

your still trying to dodge the bullet by not answering to these questions i asked earlier about your sudden rant:

Now i still need to know what the Middle East did to cause the Cold War, how the west is planning on killing 95% of the planets population and enslaving the rest and this statement ofcourse:

THIS IS ALL ADMITTED. Do you know how dumb they think you are? Everyone has been totally brainwashed: you have no historical perspective; you do not know how the predatory elite operate; you do not understand how corruption grows in a society; you do not understand the mechanisms the military-industrial complex uses to expand their corporate empire; you do not understand the history of our economic system, and you are such good people that you cannot understand the level of evil it requires to poison children with highly toxic deadly chemicals such as Fluoride, making them take more than two parts per-thousand on a daily basis, causing a chemical lobotomy and have it all driven by an elitist ideology where you believe them to be worse than animals.

[Mango]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/ap ... turner.htm - Ted Turner Repeats Call For Population Curb

Socialized health care, eugenics, trans humanism, environmental legislation

[The Wanderer]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2008/042808_ted_turner.htm - Ted Turner Repeats Call For Population Curb

Socialized health care, eugenics, trans humanism, environmental legislation

what you stated would be a crime against humanity, what this guy is saying what would be the "ideal" situation for earth according to him. You were making it sound like super corporations of evil are trying to take over the world and will slaughter billions in the process.

As the Baltimore Sun reported, "Most of [Ted Turner's first donation to the United Nations Foundation of] $22 million went to programs that seek to stall population growth

I see no evil in this. They aren't murdering to attain that stall.

Heres your statement about it that sounded a bit over the top:

Calm down? A scientific dictatorship run by a bunch of psychopaths is taking over the planet, their stated goal is the extermination of 95% of the planet and the enslavement of the rest. The planet is being run by hard-core crooks operating a gigantic criminal syndicate, planning for a complete martial-law takeover of the united states.

i like the enslavement part the most, talking about dramatising it...

Anyhow, the worlds population will automatically stall soon as most third world countries are soon to be leaving their "industrial revolution" fase. most scientists expect it to never rise beyond 9-10 billion, which is still more than enough margin before we reach the claimed limit of 60 billion that earth can sustain.