Our government breaks it's own laws again.

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Our government breaks it's own laws again.

Postby Mr. Happy on Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:06 am

Wasn't really sure what to put in the subject, since this isn't something that can easily be summarized. Basically, the Army is changing the standing mission of a brigrade of troops for domestic service. It's a doulbe edged sword, on the one hand their mission is noble, on the other hand it's another small step towards the Orwellian nightmare that the neo-conservative movement has slowly been instituting with such things as the PATRIOT act.

Here, read this article:

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/a ... d_090708w/

At first glance it seems a very noble duty, and I applaud aspects of their mission:

Beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the 1st BCT will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command, as an on-call federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks.


This is great news, especially in the wake of Katrina when the department of defence had pulled too much of the National Guard to Iraq and when their services, their specific noble duty, was in need, they couldn't help.

However, read along further. The first disturbing thing is this:

Don’t look for any extra time off, though. The at-home mission does not take the place of scheduled combat-zone deployments and will take place during the so-called dwell time a unit gets to reset and regenerate after a deployment.


I do not know what it's like in the millitary, I'm sure that between tours you still have duties, but is seems like they will now be worked at both ends. They may not have extra time off, but it seems to me they will have even less? I don't really know...maybe someone here is a soldier, or the family of one, and can help enlighten me as to what dwell time is etc.

But what I really wanted to talk about is this:

They may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control

This is only one sentence from one article but it is disturbing. This is expressly illegal under the Posse Comitatis Act of 1878.

Soldiers patrolling the streets, breaking up crowds...illegal, immoral, and the start of a slippery slope. Obviously this wouldn't be a day to day thing, they are talking about insurrection, rebellion, or...demonstrations? Protests? That is a terrifying thought, that the government will be free to use a specifically trained battallion against protestors.

Of course their primary mission is to prepare for possible disasters, but there are aspects to this whcih are horrifying.
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Re: Our government breaks it's own laws again.

Postby stoopdapoop on Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:27 am

Yeah I read about this the other day, and I think it's kinda madness.

Especially when stuff like the (under-reported) mass arrests at this year's and 2004's Republican national conventions, where hundreds of people were teargased, conc naded, and arrested for sitting in a park.

http://www.lineofbullshit.com/archives/ ... ntion.html

I wonder how the army would handle the situation...

But as far as more work for the soldiers, I'm not sure it would really have an effect, it's just a reallocation of existing forces.
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Re: Our government breaks it's own laws again.

Postby k-dawg on Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:44 am

they are allowed to arrest you under probable cause. but they cant hold you more than 2 days. (i almost garentee they were arrested for a death threat to the R.National Convention. un sure of who it was. they decided to do that.

they would not have done that with out a reason.

point and simple....


as for the troops.

my dad is in the air force. and works. and works on the predator. (THE UAV)
so he wont be sent in. (tho came close to)

he has been overseas many a time.

but i dont really see the full detail of whats happening.

so i really have no say in what i think is right/wrong.

maybe a military POV would be good.
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Re: Our government breaks it's own laws again.

Postby Mango on Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:02 pm

The American shadow government is preparing for martial law.
There have been multiple transgressions of Possie Commitatus. Military were used during Katrina with FBI and local law enforcement.
Presidential Directive 51 allows continuity of government to be enacted during a 'crisis'. FEMA, Homeland Security, and all branches of government become subservient to the Executive.

NAFTA & SPP have authorized the usage of foreign military domestically. US, Mexico & Canada.

The worst part is this: the military are now recruiting aggrevated felons. Criminals. The US are actually using Latin Death-Squads in Iraq. Guess who's coming to the US after the've finished their tours?

Tazers, assault rifle armed police patrolling NY subways. The new NY surveillence grid. UAV.

America is going into martial law.

Mr. Happy: You need to go to a library, get out The Rise and the Fall of the 3rd Reich - William Shirer
Look at the legislation and how the Nazi police state came in. Read The Gulag Archipelago Book 1 - Alexander Solzhenitsyn. Look at Article 58 and the Communists.

History repeats itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_a ... hird_Reich
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_58 ... Penal_Code)
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Re: Our government breaks it's own laws again.

Postby Mango on Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:35 pm

Your ecomony is being raped right in front of you, hardcore corporations are looting the US. The central banking syndicate set this all up. It's time for a mass raping. Just like in '29. Only this time they coming for everything. Your land, your jobs, your savings, your pension funds. Its going to come out that the governments are a bunch of drug-running, child-kidnapping, murdering scum. The black uniforms are there for a reason. The concentration camps have already been built. You'll watch em on the news as all this comes down, lying through the corrupt media. The US is about to implode, to be blown out as a 3rd world military colony.

http://www.infowars.com
http://www.infowars.com/?cat=37
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Re: Our government breaks it's own laws again.

Postby ghost12332 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:56 pm

Got Conspiracy Mr. Mango? The US is not turning into the 3rd reich, thats an ignorant retarded thing to say, and while history DOES repeat itself, not in that sort of a way. We do not have "death squads" in Iraq, and if you find me one reliable source, not weekly world news or some shit like that, reliable like NBC, CNN, ABC, FOX, etc. And no, those media outlets are not corrupt communist pigs, etc.

The US is not turning into a nazi germany, concentration camps have not been built, christ, someone delete this guys post...


Also, there is one major thing about the whole act 51 or whatever, your assuming that people would go along with the rise of a dictatorship (Though in retrospect most dictators began as highly loved democratically elected people) and that the army would listen to this guy who tried to seize control.


Anyway, nothing new, this has been done in every major war. Korea, Somalia, Vietnam (Lots of it in vietnam) so I'm not really that concerned.
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Re: Our government breaks it's own laws again.

Postby Mango on Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:13 am

So you're saying that no western government could fall into a dictatorship? It would be the 4th Reich anyway: it's called the New World Order. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a9Syi12RJo & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QHgo0xEyF4.

Did you know that Bush's grandfather was involved with a conspiracy to enact a fascist coup d'etat in the US during WWII? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
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Re: Our government breaks it's own laws again.

Postby ghost12332 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:18 am

I didn't say it wasn't impossible at all, merely very unlikely, a number of factors must be exactly right and the american mind must be at a certain point so that it would accept it.
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Re: Our government breaks it's own laws again.

Postby Sacul15 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:02 am

Meh, nothing's going to happen. Troops were brought in during the LA riots, and 1984 didn't happen. With Bush's and the Republicans' approval rating, they'd be insane to use them unless absolutely necessary, anyway.

Also, Mango, no president would be stupid enough to stage some kind of coup. No president who's ever heard of Julius Caesar, that is.
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Re: Our government breaks it's own laws again.

Postby Bema on Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:29 am

The US government wont do anything along those lines Mango. Too many guns in civillian hands for starters. :)


Back to the original point - Besides Northern Ireland (maybe Kosovo too) I can't think of a time Britain used troops in riot control - however Northern Ireland is prehaps slightly different to anything they would have faced in mainland Britain, or anything the US troops would face on the ground in America.

If the crowds are big, and there's a threat of violence (I mean proper violence here, not a few random bricks) then the military are often better trained to deal with the situation. It's not that cops aren't well trained for rioters, just the military tend to instill a better sense of discipline, which is what you'd need to face petrol bombs and the like (again, see Northern Ireland).
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Re: Our government breaks it's own laws again.

Postby k-dawg on Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:23 am

Mango wrote:Your ecomony is being raped right in front of you, hardcore corporations are looting the US. The central banking syndicate set this all up. It's time for a mass raping. Just like in '29. Only this time they coming for everything. Your land, your jobs, your savings, your pension funds.

Its going to come out that the governments are a bunch of drug-running, child-kidnapping, murdering scum. The black uniforms are there for a reason.

The concentration camps have already been built. You'll watch em on the news as all this comes down, lying through the corrupt media.

The US is about to implode, to be blown out as a 3rd world military colony.

http://www.infowars.com
http://www.infowars.com/?cat=37

you have got to be kidding me...

-.-
i went ahead an added some enters so people can read the quote better...

i guess your next one will be Jesus shot kenedy?
give me a break

1. yes. our economy is being raped. by who? by us. the civilians, the bank owners, and too much interference of government. - our economy is made to fix itself. its built off of the concept of greed. if there is money to be made. then it will be made. since people pulled out of the market. government raised interest rates. people pull money out of banks. - people dont have enough money to pay off homes - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac convinced people to spend the money from their equity. and not pay off the house. thinking it would be a smart move. they complied.

- banks dont get the money from the equity. they cant make the investment into the stock market. (which by the way, is doing Fantastic)

- Oh no! stockmarket doesnt have money to give to corporations. corps cant pay off bank loans. big companies like WaMu and AIG fall.

but wait!!! here comes average Joe. he buys the house for 3x cheaper than the owners asked. now 300,000 is now in the bank that wasnt there before.
x that by 20 million.
that gives you roughly around 6,000,000,000,000 you didn't have before.

and the banks put that right back into the market.

2. find me a government that is 100% perfect. no. you cant.
find me a person who is 100% perfect. no. you cant.
find me a job that is 100% perfect. no. you cant.
so what if we have a politician who thinks we can have 1 government for the whole world.
how many people are following him?
does he have access to a country who has the power to do such a thing? - no. not even america can do that. were in a pickle as it is now. forces all over Europe. Middle East. and Asia.

3. -.-
The US is about to implode, to be blown out as a 3rd world military colony.

name one person who would let this happen?
other than yourself.

4. im done with this. Ive been to Europe. Ive experienced both worlds. Ive been to Canada. ive been to Mexico. and i honestly think the US still deserves it right as top superpower. (tho china is coming close)

yes. our dollar is cheap. this means more job opportunities will open up here. same thing with china. we are going to get a large immigration of European job-seakers.

now im done here. topic out of hand.
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Last edited by k-dawg on Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Our government breaks it's own laws again.

Postby Mr. Happy on Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:33 am

Everything you said about the economy k-dawg is misinformed and wrong...
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Re: Our government breaks it's own laws again.

Postby k-dawg on Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:09 am

Mr. Happy wrote:Everything you said about the economy k-dawg is misinformed and wrong...


mostlikely. lol

i get carried away sometimes. but to my understanding, what i said i believe.
Ive heard it from scattered places. and my mind works in mysterious ways...

so please forgive me for my ignorance ^.^
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Re: Our government breaks it's own laws again.

Postby R26 on Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:11 am

While we are discussing the American economy...

We're here because of you
We're here because you were there
We've arrived from every corner of the planet to this nation
To seek the fulfilment of a promise of America
We were promised a better life in our home countries, where we were told that privatising water and electricity will make things run more efficiently
Instead the quality remained almost the same and the price was increased until it became an unaffordable luxury
Some corporations are more efficient than government, but their motivation is not the health or the well being of the people, it's only about profit, everything else, their image, their human resources, their public relations, only exist to protect the reality behind it
Once upon a time, we were told that nationalisation would prevent growth by limiting competition, that our countries were nothing without the companies that invested in us and so they privatised everything, everything in our country was owned by people that had no connection to our culture, by those who never had our interests at heart, they didn't care about our survival or well being, they just wanted to turn a profit by raping our land, by exploiting our people, our industry and our resources
They took everything we built and made it theirs, first by creating racism to justify slavery, building the capital for capitalism and then when they gave us what they call liberty, everything we had was still owned by them, our governments told us that socialism was the real enemy and that we would have freedom, but the foreign powers and corporations were the ones with real freedom
The freedom to take all the wealth generated by our work and our land and give us only a small percentage of the scraps from the table
Their lust for power and their greed drove them to betray not only us but themselves and the word of their own God
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Re: Our government breaks it's own laws again.

Postby Sorrow on Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:40 am

K-Dawg wrote:find me a government that is 100% perfect. no. you cant.
find me a person who is 100% perfect. no. you cant.


I can find you a government that is at least 80% perfect, ours.
I can find you a person that is at least 99.9% perfect. me!

I wonder if the American economy crashes, will things turn to shit here as well? probably... not too happy about that, you should keep your loans and money problems on your own continent :P
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