USA 2008 Elections

[Sacul15]

I am not saying this is the entire population. It is an isolated event but it is worth telling you guys about it....

Reading comprehension is a good thing.

[Mr-Jigsaw]

For me, Obama's record shows him being on the right side and supporting people as neccesary, whiles McCain's is corrupted with actions including the Keating Five and his support of budget cuts for disabled people.

If you're still using that argument against McCain, you've got nothing on him. I'm not saying these were valid arguments, but your argument demands an analogue. If you can hold the Keating five against Mccain, then someone sure as hell can hold the William Ayers and Reverend Wright thing against Obama.

and even if you don't agree with me that Bush was terrible, you can't deny the fact that the majority of not just the US's, but the entire bloody world's population didn't like him.

Even so, I feel correct in saying that many groups within "the rest of the world" have skewed opinions based on misinformation. I'm not defending Bush, but it is a dire mistake to say that just because a good amount of people doesn't like someone means that they are all right.

It's gonna take a while for the Republican's to cool down and get back to actually being part of the US senate, and not just trying to piss of the Demo's.

What are you talking about? The people are the ones who need to cool down, not the Republican representatives. You realize that the Democrats have been blocking the GOP much more than the opposite. Were the democrats trying to piss of the republicans and say "we're right haha" when Pelois made that stupid speech before the first bailout vote. Ah, forgot about that one, eh. Explain to me how a Democratic congress has such low approval ratings and the solution is to remove more of the minority to make an even more Democratic congress? Oh, you think the GOP has been blocking the Dems, but do you realize that a president's last two years are the worst, because the congress will almost undoubtably be controlled by the opposite party and because the pres is a lame duck, they have no reason to work with him. I have no idea where you got your idea that Republican representatives were just trying to piss of the Dems.

but when I watched McCain's loosing speech, and the booing from the Republicans that came when he stated he had contacted Obama to congratulate him on his victory

Yeah, of course there are always going to be these people, but do you think it would have been any different if McCain had won. I'd guess that people would be even more pissed off, there would be allegations of voter fraud everywhere. Remember that the discontentment from a number of Republicans doesn't indict the whole party. If you think it does, then you're myopic in your understanding of politics.

Well for literally the first time in my life I feel like America has made the right choice. I'm not the only one in the world who feels that way. In fact probably most people in the rest of the world feel as I do (maybe not as strongly, but along the same lines). Just by being elected Obama has probably done a good amount to reduce terrorism and improve the status of the US on the national stage. That can't be a bad thing can it?

So, for the rest of it, America never did the right hing? You sound kind of like Michelle Obama. And doens't it seem a bit moronic to say that because the rest of the world agreees is a good reason he was elected? I don't know, what better way than to ask people who don't even live in this country about our politics? And about national image and reputation. As soon as we care about how we look in the world's eyes, we've already lost.

'm voting Pakistan in January. We'll see if it occurs.

Well, they kind of deserve it. The FATA region, I mean.

But really, none of this matters any more. Let's just hope things work out for the best.

It will end like every other presidency does, by the last year he will no longer be your messiah. Approval ratings are cruel.

[ad_hominem]

If you're still using that argument against McCain, you've got nothing on him. I'm not saying these were valid arguments, but your argument demands an analogue.

I believe you mean an analogy?

[MayheM]

I stated that A. it was an isolated insident and B. it was sad becasue it would be a step backwards if more people thought like that. I for one believe everyone should be given the same oportunities. Not becaseu of ones race or sex but becaseu he or she works hard to get what they want. I do not believe in entitlement no matter if you are white or black. The simple fact is that Obama got many votes becasue he was black, the same can be said though about him not getting votes for the same reason. I wish we could just look past that all and say... Do I believe what he is saying or do I have the same views as him. I did not agree with some of his policies so I did not vote for him. It had nothing to do with his race. If Colin Powell had run for presedent I would ahve voted for him HANDS DOWN... Thanks for calling me a racist though, I will have to tell my black friends about that...

[Mr-Jigsaw]

I believe you mean an analogy?

You said it better than I did, I was making things more compilcated than I needed.

Oh, and Spike, I know its a joke, but there was only one sizeable slave uprising during America's early years. And the whole world benefitted from salvery too, so...

[Woe Kitten]

Well for literally the first time in my life I feel like America has made the right choice. I'm not the only one in the world who feels that way. In fact probably most people in the rest of the world feel as I do (maybe not as strongly, but along the same lines). Just by being elected Obama has probably done a good amount to reduce terrorism and improve the status of the US on the national stage. That can't be a bad thing can it?

So, for the rest of it, America never did the right hing? You sound kind of like Michelle Obama. And doens't it seem a bit moronic to say that because the rest of the world agreees is a good reason he was elected? I don't know, what better way than to ask people who don't even live in this country about our politics? And about national image and reputation. As soon as we care about how we look in the world's eyes, we've already lost.

I'd say pretty much yeah. You guys have been acting like ignorant bullies my whole life and I can't think of a single glimmer of hope in the last 20 years. Except for today. The main reason: you don't care what the rest of the world thinks. You don't think about the impact of your actions beyond your own shores. By what you've just said you think that's a good thing. That's exactly why the world can't stand America and THAT is why there is such a problem with terrorism.

You should be feeling good today. For the first day in your life: the rest of the world doesn't hate you.

[Sacul15]

I think that we should always consider the effect that we have on the rest of the world, but put our own needs and wants first. The rest of the world shouldn't dictate what we do. For example, if the United States feels that war is necessary, we should always go to the UN to ask for assistance, but if they denounce our intentions that should not keep us from protecting our own interests.

[Mr-Jigsaw]

By what you've just said you think that's a good thing. That's exactly why the world can't stand America and THAT is why there is such a problem with terrorism.

Personally, I feel that terrorism is bred by ignorance and control of information. You'll note that the major breeding grounds of terrorism are controlled by oppressive factions willing to kill journalists and elders who disagree with their regime. In these places, education is crippled or not present at all. TElevision, radio, and other froms of media are banned making the only sources of information word of mouth and allowed texts(VERY biased). Through this, the terrorist leaders maintain the greatest form of control over their people and pave the way for future generations of insurgents and the like. Even if we cared how we looked, they would keep telling their children the west is evil, the USA especially. This is the cause of terrorism.

[Spike]

Thanks for calling me a racist though, I will have to tell my black friends about that...

I didnt want to call you racist, I wanted to say that what you said sounded racist

[k-dawg]

all i need to say is remove electoral votes...

were not in 1820 any more..

we have 340 mil people.

we need better ways to count votes.

all you need to do is get. CA. TX. NY. DW. ML. VA. FL. OR. WA. and your almost set...

its murdered sooo many candidates, its not even funny.

=[
ugh.

i mean
if i get 5 million votes from a state. but lose because of 20 electoral votes. (roughly PA)
then i would be mad.

i can have more popular votes. but still lose.

(bush v. Gore.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presi ... tion,_2000
look at the number of votes for bush. v the number of votes for Gore. (under pic on right)


this is a problem...
im suggesting District Votes. (possibly 2 per)

and raise the "electoral vote" limit to like 20,000

yah?

[BillyDa59]

Anyone else feel that this topic should start to tone down? We got a bunch of bitter republicans with the usual, "Oh NO! The dem-ur-crat is gunna done this country no good! Now the AL-KAY-DER is gonna nuke us!" just because they're candidate lost. Then there's the all the democrats, "NIR NIR NIR, Obama is best evah! You R all teh ray-sisst! Guns r bad!" Yes, Obama won, we've heard. Go gloat somewhere else please.

Another thing: Careful what you say (everyone), you could end up making yourself look very stupid. I mean things like:

Obama has never stated he is not a flesh vehicle, operated by a team of small aliens bent on world domination.
McCain is a decrepit old man who probably still believes in slavery and is a racist nazi!

Obviously no one has stated these exact things but there's a few things I've read in the last page of posts that are fairly... small-minded for lack of a better term.

[Sacul15]

I think each district should have a vote. 538 votes, 270 to win just like it is now, except we get rid of many of the bad effects of the winner take all system and keep all the benefits of the electoral college.

Anybody know how what the population/electoral vote ratio was when the system was created?

[medestruit]

Anyone else feel that this topic should start to tone down? We got a bunch of bitter republicans with the usual, "Oh NO! The dem-ur-crat is gunna done this country no good! Now the AL-KAY-DER is gonna nuke us!" just because they're candidate lost. Then there's the all the democrats, "NIR NIR NIR, Obama is best evah! You R all teh ray-sisst! Guns r bad!" Yes, Obama won, we've heard. Go gloat somewhere else please.

Another thing: Careful what you say (everyone), you could end up making yourself look very stupid. I mean things like:

Obama has never stated he is not a flesh vehicle, operated by a team of small aliens bent on world domination.
McCain is a decrepit old man who probably still believes in slavery and is a racist nazi!

Obviously no one has stated these exact things but there's a few things I've read in the last page of posts that are fairly... small-minded for lack of a better term.

Heh...umm...well, Republicans aren't the ones making a fuss. And mind you, the Democrats are traditionally the ones who don't let things go. After Bush was elected, a large Democratic group threw oranges(signifying the Florida recount, if you're too dense to figure it out) at his limo. Hell, a man hung himself at Ground Zero with a note written to Bush saying he was to blame. I just think the whole thing is hilarious. Comparing McCain to Bush was McCain's downfall...that was the big decision everyone who voted against McCain made...he's another Bush, vote the other way. Well, sorry people, but you did VOTE BUSH IN FOR A 2ND TERM. Pot calling kettle black, white on rice, etc etc all the other monikers you can think of. We'll see how a Communist government fares in the U.S. My biggest qualm out of everything...the one that really, really, REALLY eats at me...is the fact that not only did Obama do a massive amount of traveling overseas during his campaign(he's supposed to be running for president here...but instead he decided to go talk with foreign nations. international relations are the vice presidents business if you aren't versed in the responsibilities of the president/v.p.) and the fact that as COMMANDER IN CHIEF of the U.S. he didn't served in the armed forces, nor will he salute the flag. That really bothers me. A person who is leader of a nation, who doesn't salute or acknowledge that nations flag...is a bit discerning to me.

[Sorrow]

I really love the fact that you people talk about democrats being "communist", hell you don't even know what that means, even your leftiest left people are more more "right" than our parties.

Obama's still against gun control, against same sex marriage, against abortion and there was something else which I forgot.
Which for some reason doesn't really feel like an improvement for your country...

I even feel a bit sad for McCain, his crowd are a bunch of sore losers apparently, as his audience had been booing on more than one occasion when he talked about Obama as not someone to fear but to support.
It gave me the sense that they were mad at his "failure" and that they would've just voted for anyone but a democrat and if that were true that'd be kind of sad.

Also Mayhem, nice little "incident", obviously a dumb kid.
There are more than enough people who voted against Obama simply because he is black.

also this whole "change" thing, everybody's all swept up in it even over here, I don't know, looks like a lot of talk, we'll just have to see what happens.

As you can see I'm not really happy either way lol, just so long as you guys don't go embarking on more needless wars it should be okay though.

PS. Sacul, you talk about putting the needs of the country first and protecting your interests, don't know if you've heard the news but the Powellpoint presentation (I love that one) was a big lie, Weapons of Mass destruction are a nice buzzword but a lie, and there is no Iraq - Terrorist connection except for the fact that the terrorists were also a thorn in Saddam's side. And "you" even put Saddam there which I still love as that little touch of irony and gives you that "you get what you deserve" feeling.

The media coverage was also quite disgusting, big headers "Mission: Iraq / Target: Iraq" that sort of stuff, lots of happy propaganda everyone fell for, when the media realised their mistake and they turned it around and asked questions they were "unpatriotic" and "not supporting the troops" no they were just not supporting the president. btw, every news channel did that, even the ones you consider "communist"

In Congress if I recall this correctly, there was only one woman who voted against the war in Iraq?
I don't recall her name but she asked herself whether they were doing the right thing and not becoming the evil themselves, well turned out she was right.

There was something else I was about to say but I think I forgot

"remembered",

there was a nice little contrast with the media story story, you were unpatriotic if you questioned the war, well you were also ridiculed over here if you were against Obama. Yeah that's it, same kind of bullshit.

also yay 5000 casualties versus 500.000, You just have to love retribution!

[Mr. Happy]

Wow you people need to calm down.
No matter who won, we weren't gonna go into WW3 and post-nuclear apocalyptia.
It does matter what the rest of the world thinks. We are surrounded by oceans canada and mexico so it's very easy for the average American to forget that this isn't the 18th century, there are hundreds of other countries, and we deal with them every day. They give us money, products, workers, and are a part of the coalition.
Sacul I do agree our national interests take precedent when they are the people's interests, but pre-emptive war is always wrong so I don't agree with your example.
The democratic party, no matter what any one thinks, is a center-right organization.
Pelosi is a dumb whore, nuff said. Ya ya ya she made a dumb speech, whatever, most of the time she's sucking the dicks of the GOP.
Rep''s and Dem's fillibuster all the fucking time.
Obama isn't going to pave the streets with gold, but he will pave the streets adn rebuild the bridges, etc.

And this is why McCain's campaign is so disgracefull. Dem's weren't this outraged and insane and worried after 2000, we didn't like it, but we weren't running around screaming like chicken's with our heads cut off. McCain made Obama out to be some sort of terrorist who's inexperience is going to destroy the country, and it's not going to happen. Did some people not get the candidate they wanted? Ya. Grow up adn deal with it, it's not the end of the world, and if McCain was elected we wouldn't be acting like such babies. You guys need to accept that Obama is the president, and need to not resist every thing he does and says before he even opens his mouth.

We need to work together, the congress needs to work together, and you need to show confidence in your government unless proved otherwise.

I highly doubt that story about the bike is true.

...keep all the benefits of the electoral college...

The elctoral college has no benefits.

One man, one vote. That's how it should be.