Obama's Policies - Discussion

[Guss79]

Everyone should ahve the oportunity to make money and get ahead if they work hard.

Nothing against you, but felt I should respond to that line. There's a difference between opportunism and being at a dead end. Middle class Americans who are working hard and doing their best to make ends meet just dont have enough money to make the ends meet. On top of that, banks have taken advantage of the middle class by tricking people into loans and such that they cannot afford and such. Its gotten to the point where its opportunism for the wrong people and in the wrong way. I think Obama is simply trying to relieve the middle class so they can make ends meet. And think of it this way, if the middle class has more money to spend, who in all likelihood will see bigger profits? So the ones getting higher taxes shouldnt be affected because overall they are seeing more profits because of a thriving middle class. But thats just how I see it.

[medestruit]

Everyone should ahve the oportunity to make money and get ahead if they work hard.

Nothing against you, but felt I should respond to that line. There's a difference between opportunism and being at a dead end. Middle class Americans who are working hard and doing their best to make ends meet just don't have enough money to make the ends meet. On top of that, banks have taken advantage of the middle class by tricking people into loans and such that they cannot afford and such. Its gotten to the point where its opportunism for the wrong people and in the wrong way. I think Obama is simply trying to relieve the middle class so they can make ends meet. And think of it this way, if the middle class has more money to spend, who in all likelihood will see bigger profits? So the ones getting higher taxes shouldnt be affected because overall they are seeing more profits because of a thriving middle class. But thats just how I see it.

Disagreed whole-heartedly. You're speaking of the middle-class who are not informed due to their own inadequacies. I have always been middle class, and looking into things before doing them has kept me out of financial issues. You cannot honestly believe that people are being taken advantage of simple because they are too lazy to want to be informed. If you cannot be assed to ask questions and do research, you deserve it. Everyone has the ability to educate themselves these days, especially with the internet. And don't say that "not everyone has the internet" blah blah. I see bums in downtown Atlanta with laptops, and there are so many areas that have open WiFi access points.

Please do not mention lack of personal competence as opportunism of the government.

[Sorrow]

Bill Gates, net worth ~ 60 billion.

simple example I bet he can lose at least 58 of those and still live the life he's living.

[Guss79]

Its not opportunism by the government... its opportunism by commercial entities. Have you seen the fine print on such things as credit card offers. Not even a lawyer can make sense of those things. Most people are not educated enough to make sense of fine print like that. And it is very easy to be persuaded by a bank rep to do a loan because he/she is saying its affordable. Its not as clear and clean as you make it sound a lot of the time because companies want it that way because in the end they profit.

[medestruit]

Its not opportunism by the government... its opportunism by commercial entities. Have you seen the fine print on such things as credit card offers. Not even a lawyer can make sense of those things. Most people are not educated enough to make sense of fine print like that. And it is very easy to be persuaded by a bank rep to do a loan because he/she is saying its affordable. Its not as clear and clean as you make it sound a lot of the time because companies want it that way because in the end they profit.

It's clear and clean if you aren't retarded. Sorry if you think people need to be felt sorry for because they aren't intelligent enough to read and make judgment.

[Mr-Jigsaw]

Bill Gates, net worth ~ 60 billion.

simple example I bet he can lose at least 58 of those and still live the life he's living.

Ever heard of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation?

[medestruit]

Bill Gates, net worth ~ 60 billion.

simple example I bet he can lose at least 58 of those and still live the life he's living.

Ever heard of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation?

Exactly. He puts in a portion just under half of his yearly income to their AIDS drive in Africa. And, as you might know(or hopefully by now know) Bill Gates stepped down as CEO of Microsoft to pursue his philanthropy. He is retired and only collects bits of royalties, and is only an honorary chairperson and share holder of Microsoft now. Much like the Google guys, who only get paid $1 a year from Google, because they are already billionaires. These 3 individuals (Bill Gates, Sergey Brin and Larry Page) donate more to charity than any other individuals in the U.S. and are at the top on a worldwide stage. Sure, they get a write-off on charity funds, but is it still fair to tax them even more because they happen to have money? No, you're punishing success. These people should not be forced to pay for the lazy, or whatever the lower class want to call themselves. Welfare needs to be removed...it is what is killing this nation when you reward those who are not helping society.

[Mango]

I see a lot of you being pretty positive with regard to Obama's policies, but I'm also quite heartened that people are aware of the socialist/communist, or more accurately, collectivist themes in Obama's policies. Hopefully the following information with give you a look into another perspective.

http://change.gov/americaserves/ - Office of the President-Elect

The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.

To recap:
Health Corps
Clean Energy Corps (CO2 inspection / global warming corps, right?)
Veterans Corps

Article: Rahm Emanuel Wants “Compulsory Service” for Your Kids - Albuquerque Examiner - http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-Liberties-Examiner~y2008m11d6-Obamas-chief-of-staff-choice-favors-compulsory-universal-service

Rep. Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, President-Elect Barack Obama’s choice for chief of staff in his incoming administration, is co-author of a book, The Plan: Big Ideas for America, that calls for, among other things, compulsory service for all Americans ages 18 to 25. The following excerpt is from pages 61-62 of the 2006 book:

It’s time for a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us. We propose universal civilian service for every young American. Under this plan, All Americans between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five will be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service. …

Here’s how it would work. Young people will know that between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five, the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service. They’ll be asked to report for three months of basic civil defense training in their state or community, where they will learn what to do in the event of biochemical, nuclear or conventional attack; how to assist others in an evacuation; how to respond when a levee breaks or we’re hit by a natural disaster. These young people will be available to address their communities’ most pressing needs.

Emanuel and co-author Bruce Reed insist "this is not a draft," but go on to write of young men and women, "the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service." They also warn, "[s]ome Republicans will squeal about individual freedom," ruling out any likelihood that they would let people opt out of universal citizen service.

As chief of staff, Emanuel will not be in a position to directly introduce public policy, but his enthusiasm for compulsory service, combined with Barack Obama’s own plan to require high school students to perform 50 hours of government-approved service, suggest an unfortunate direction for the new administration. [Emphasis added]

SOURCE: http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/NationalServicePlanFactSheet.pdf

In July, Obama revealed his plan for “a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded” as the U.S. military. In the speech, Obama said “People of all ages, stations, and skills will be asked to serve.” He also said this mass movement requiring servitude “will be a central cause of my presidency.”

"just as well-funded" God only knows where the money is going to come from. More debt probably.
For the sake of history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komsomol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Youth
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/632620/Voluntary-Militia-for-National-Security

The ominous words of one Joseph Biden:

"It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking… Remember I said it standing here if you don’t remember anything else I said. Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."

A generated crisis eh? Pakistan? An Iranian embargo? (which, incidentally, is an act of war)

You might also be interested in this:
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_3977.shtml - Obama: return to elite status quo

You might also want to learn about this character:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=598o1tuYuPI and his association with Dr. Henry Kissinger.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aVmtbLc4t6M&feature=related Dr. Henry Kissinger on the New World Order.

Just some information, do with it what you will.

[Dionysos]

...
"just as well-funded" God only knows where the money is going to come from. More debt probably.
For the sake of history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komsomol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Youth
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/632620/Voluntary-Militia-for-National-Security
...

Just thought I would comment on that. The form of "civil service" to train in case of an attack sounds alot like the usual "draft" you have in many european countries, where you do a military (or civil) service for a couple of months. Many places they strive to have it abolished, and I too find it annoying to be forced to do something like that, but for the country as a whole I really cant see a downside to it. So your youth is forced to train (physical fitness) for three months (that is a very short time) and be better prepared in an emergency.

Switzerland has an extreme version of this (just as info) where every man has to do a specific amount of military training each year, and if you are a bad shot you even get a little punishment (tho I dont recall which). I wouldnt want to invade switzerland

[Mango]

Hey guys, you might also want to know about Obama's Chief of Staff, Rahm Emanuel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel

Here's a little story about Rahm Emanuel:
As reported in the: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/andrew_sullivan/article5113223.ece

The best Rahm Emanuel story is not the one about the decomposing two-and-a-half-foot fish he sent to a pollster who displeased him. It is not about the time - the many times - that he hung up on political contributors in a Chicago mayor's race, saying he was embarrassed to accept their $5,000 checks because they were $25,000 kind of guys. No, the definitive Rahm Emanuel story takes place in Little Rock, Ark., in the heady days after Bill Clinton was first elected President.

It was there that Emanuel, then Clinton's chief fund-raiser, repaired with George Stephanopoulos, Mandy Grunwald and other aides to Doe's, the campaign hangout. Revenge was heavy in the air as the group discussed the enemies - Democrats, Republicans, members of the press - who wronged them during the 1992 campaign. Clifford Jackson, the ex-friend of the President and peddler of the Clinton draft-dodging stories, was high on the list. So was William Donald Schaefer, then the Governor of Maryland and a Democrat who endorsed George Bush. Nathan Landow, the fund-raiser who backed the candidacy of Paul Tsongas, made it, too.

Suddenly Emanuel grabbed his steak knife and, as those who were there remeber it, shouted out the name of another enemy, lifted the knife, then brought it down with full force into the table.

''Dead!'' he screamed.

The group immediately joined in the cathartic release: ''Nat Landow! Dead! Cliff Jackson! Dead! Bill Schaefer! Dead!''

That's the type of people in Obama's cabinet. You can imagine him there, frothing mad, shouting "DEAD, DEAD, DEAD" repeatedly stabbing the knife into the table. As the rest of the group joins in shouting "DEAD! DEAD! DEAD!".

How about his father's racism? From the Jerusalem Post: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1225910047157&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

In an interview with Ma’ariv, Emanuel’s father, Dr. Benjamin Emanuel, said he was convinced that his son’s appointment would be good for Israel. "Obviously he will influence the president to be pro-Israel," he was quoted as saying. "Why wouldn’t he be? What is he, an Arab? He’s not going to clean the floors of the White House."

As if America wasn't pro-Israel enough already.

[dragonfliet]

Man. Can you believe that? As retaliation, he said the word dead while hitting a table in a room away from the people who's names were being called. The nerve to be angry at someone and disavow them in a cathartic way behind their backs!

[Sacul15]

I read this a few weeks ago, so I'm just gonna throw this out there:

The fact is that the government, like a highwayman, says to a man: “Your money, or your life.” And many, if not most, taxes are paid under the compulsion of that threat. The government does not, indeed, waylay a man in a lonely place, spring upon him from the roadside, and, holding a pistol to his head, proceed to rifle his pockets. But the robbery is none the less a robbery on that account; and it is far more dastardly and shameful. The highwayman takes solely upon himself the responsibility, danger, and crime of his own act. He does not pretend that he has any rightful claim to your money, or that he intends to use it for your own benefit. He does not pretend to be anything but a robber. He has not acquired impudence enough to profess to be merely a “protector,” and that he takes men’s money against their will, merely to enable him to “protect” those infatuated travellers, who feel perfectly able to protect themselves, or do not appreciate his peculiar system of protection. He is too sensible a man to make such professions as these. Furthermore, having taken your money, he leaves you, as you wish him to do. He does not persist in following you on the road, against your will; assuming to be your rightful “sovereign,” on account of the “protection” he affords you. He does not keep “protecting” you, by commanding you to bow down and serve him; by requiring you to do this, and forbidding you to do that; by robbing you of more money as often as he finds it for his interest or pleasure to do so; and by branding you as a rebel, a traitor, and an enemy to your country, and shooting you down without mercy, if you dispute his authority, or resist his demands. He is too much of a gentleman to be guilty of such impostures, and insults, and villainies as these. In short, he does not, in addition to robbing you, attempt to make you either his dupe or his slave.

I found the "branding you as a rebel, a traitor, and an enemy to your country" part quite relevant, considering Joe Biden's remark that it is patriotic to pay higher taxes.

[MayheM]

Its not opportunism by the government... its opportunism by commercial entities. Have you seen the fine print on such things as credit card offers. Not even a lawyer can make sense of those things. Most people are not educated enough to make sense of fine print like that. And it is very easy to be persuaded by a bank rep to do a loan because he/she is saying its affordable. Its not as clear and clean as you make it sound a lot of the time because companies want it that way because in the end they profit.

It's clear and clean if you aren't retarded. Sorry if you think people need to be felt sorry for because they aren't intelligent enough to read and make judgment.

Reading the fine print on credit cards can only teach you so much... what you really need to know is that you should not live beyond your means. Such as people living in the getto driving a brand new BMW. that is just stupid. So many people are all about the hear and now, and want instant gratification. So they overspend then blame the government or worse the people who spend wisely saying boo hoo i dont have any money. If you do not understand the fine print on the credit card, dont sign up for it. That seems pretty freaking simple to me...

My issue lies with the fact that Obama wants to raise taxes for the people who make over 250,000 a year. Well my brother works for a company and his boss owns the building my brother manages. If he gets hit with more taxes to the point it really hits his wallet, nothing is stopping him from selling the store my brother runs. How is that helping the economy? how is that helping the little guy? if that store closes down, my brother obviously looses his job, but he also has about 150 people working for him. Obama is a TARD!!! I am so freaking nervious about where things are going...

[medestruit]

That is exactly what I explained earlier in a post MayheM

[Mango]

Man. Can you believe that? As retaliation, he said the word dead while hitting a table in a room away from the people who's names were being called. The nerve to be angry at someone and disavow them in a cathartic way behind their backs!

Yes because angrily stabbing a blade into a table while screaming the names of people who've slighted you is behavior we all expect from our politicians.
I can't believe you think that's normal behavior. Listen, if I did that at your house, or if you can over to mine for dinner and brought your wife. I get angry while discussing someone I dislike and start STABBING THE TABLE while calling for their death, you would think I was a fucking loony-tune and never accept an invitation from me again.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that "oh yeah it's a totally natural act of catharsis for someone who felt slighted by some factual news articles about the president"?

C'mon man.