US Economic Issues...

[MayheM]

So I ahve been keeping up with the Economy as much as I can and more so keeping up with what has been going on in Washington. In the past I have bashed Obama, but since he was elected I have chosen to put aside my past views as best i can and actually give him a chance. That said, I am really begining to worry about the amount of money he has been spending.

In just over a month in office he has spent more money than the government has in 7 years! Money was given to the car companies (granted that was passed un Bush but Obama did vote in favor of it so...) and now they are asking for more. Last night Obama said "the country who invented the automobile can not turn thier backs on the automobile". This leads me to believe he is planning on granting the car companies even more money. He also said flat out that there where no earmarks in this stimulous bill. I find it hard to believe a field mouse in San Francsico getting several million dollars would not be considered an earmark. I spoke with my friend who works in DC for a republican congressman and I was told the bill was about 9 inches thick and full of pointless crap. In fact the thing was so thick they had to change the toner cartrage in the middle of printing. The bill was writen by three Democrats and had little to no input from the Republican party. I was hopeful that Obamas words of a bipartisan government where in fact more then just words. I fear with no one to say no to the Democrats they are doing as they please.

I just want to hear what everyone else has to say. I dont clame to know it all but I do know I am worried about where this country is going.

[Dionysos]

No amount of rescue funding/bills can save anyone. All that money is coming from loans, even the money from the government. They can never pay that back, and that is the essential downfall of, well, everything. The main problem is the amount of never-to-be-payed-back debt *in the world*, and the money not circulating and thus keeping the economy from going. By giving away all those rescue packages and what-not, they are trying to keep the money, liquidity, circulating and flowing, but since the system is fundamentally flawed it will only put off the inevitable.

Because of that, these bills are a bad idea, they are giving a false hope, but really only making things worse. But hey, nothing will change until its too late anyways, it never does, and thats how it's always been. Call me pessimistic, but everything simply points towards an epic (lol?) crash and "change" will come from nothing else.

[MayheM]

After posting this I saw that another $410 Billion was passed by the House and Obama has preposed $634 Billion over 10 years for health reform... Wow is like the South Park Episode where they learn you can cure AIDS by injecting all your money into yourself. Maybe if we cover the problem with money it will all go away, more like cover the problems with money so you can not see them anymore. Out of sight out of mind right...

[RawMeat3000]

I don't know much about how the economy really works, but the way I understand it anyone using the Keynesian system of economics, where government spending is used to stimulate the economy, must eventually fail because for some reason I don't understand (but I think it has something to do with interest) we have to spend an exponentially increasing amount of money to keep the system functioning. Oh, and that money doesn't really exist, it's created as debt; as a loan made to us (if you live in America) by our very own Federal Reserve. Our NGO private bank, on call 24/7 to put us in more debt.

So it really doesn't matter if you're a democrat or republican, most people in Washington are going to spend assloads of money they don't have. The only difference between dems and reps is what they spend the money on.

But that's just my two cents. I don't really know what I'm talking about, just throwing out some information I've collected to contribute.

[korge]

In a few years the bottom of the US economy may blow out. This debt and inflation just cant last. And spending 1 Trillion of tax payers dollars on pork and govn "green" jobs doesnt help anyone really.

Just wait for it to crash and eventually natural capitalism may drive the market again... But that is hoping that we survive the wreck.

[JakeParlay]

In just over a month in office he has spent more money than the government has in 7 years!

wait... what? that's not even close to being a fact

[Dionysos]

Thats pretty much right on the money RawMeat. The fact is that the "stimulus" theyre trying to achieve by taking up loans (government debt) does not outweigh those loans, they cant be paid back due to the interest.

Oh, also MattWeb "natural capitalism" is what pretty much caused this, so yeah.

[Sathor]

He can't have spent more money yet. Bush wasted billions in useless wars, Obama will have a hard time to catch up with the amount burned with bombs and arms in the Middle East.

And although Obama might have a really hard time, I like his solution better than a probable republican one. They would have no idea at all and would perhaps just start another war to distract everyone. My 2 cents.

PS: And as long there are enough dumb people who think money is growing from trees and loan money for everything and can't pay back anyway, the system will collaps from time to time. Take it as a chance. I never spent money I don't have, and you should not either. An exception may be made to pay for a car or a house, but only if you are sure you will be able to pay back.
I "know" enough people who buy a sofa with a credit. They pay back 40 euros per month for the sofa. They pay back 200 euros per month for the kitchen they bought. They do not realize they have to do that 24-36 months, not only one months. In my mind, many people are just to dumb to realize nobody will make you a gift.

PPS: And as long as people keep thinking: "US economic issues" and don't realize this is an international problem, I don't see how the fucked-up-ness will end.

[ad_hominem]

Last night Obama said "the country who invented the automobile can not turn their backs on the automobile".

So, he's talking about france then? Or China? Or Switzerland? (Depending on what you class as an automobile)

It definitely wasn't America, in any case...

[unclep4ul]

Would you rather your government did nothing and see over 3 million put out of work, unable to keep a roof over their heads or food in their childrens mouths?

[Bema]

Would you rather your government did nothing and see over 3 million put out of work, unable to keep a roof over their heads or food in their childrens mouths?

Exactly.

[zombie@computer]

economy is like an airplane, in this case one that is about to crash: injecting money into it is like pulling the airplane up. You MUST pull up to make sure you dont go nosedown into the ground, but do it to much and you'll enter into a stall, and crash even harder...

the us government HAS to spend money, without it the economy will fall. The amounts of which, is another matter. Whether its too much or too little i cant tell. Too much and the depths will bankrupt the country. Too little and the economy will crash, causing a (you guessed it) bankrupcy. Do it just right, and the country MAY survive untill the next economic crash. Which way it will go, only time can tell...

[MayheM]

Last night Obama said "the country who invented the automobile can not turn their backs on the automobile".

So, he's talking about france then? Or China? Or Switzerland? (Depending on what you class as an automobile)

It definitely wasn't America, in any case...

I was just qoutine what he in fact said... Though one would assume he is speaking of the automobile with a combustion engine... Ironcially however, if he where trying to say that, it is not Ford who is having issues it is GM. Ford is doing just fine as far as i know. So it is not the market but rather the way GM is being run.

As far as the amount of money Obama has spent not being close to fact...
Here is a quick rundown of what he has spent or plans to spend...

Stimulus Bill: $787 billion
Omnibus Spending Bill: $410 billion
Proposed Health Plan: $634 billion

This is almost reaching $2 Trillion... and only within the first month of his term in office. The intrest alone on this will be freaking rediculous! While he spoke the other night he said we should not leave our kids with a tab they can never pay, Nancy Pelosi stood and aplauded him saying that when she was one of the three people who wrote the bill to do just that.

Hey I am all for the government helping out its people. That is in fact what they are there for. However I find it repusive that "earmarks" are put into these bills so they will get signed. $30 Million dolars being alocated to a feaking mouse in california is rediculous. Then you have the Omnimus Bill and its 9000 "earmarks". Here are a few of those little goodies...

$143,000 for national history programs at the Las Vegas History Museum.
$200,000 for digitizing and editing the collection at the Buffalo Bill Historical Center
$200,000 to be used for tattoo removal
$800,000 for catfish genetics down in Alabama
$250,000 slated for the Montana Sheep Institute.
$2 million for swine odor and manure management
$2 million for buildings at the Center for Grape Genetics in Geneva
$200,000 for improving blueberry production and efficiency

That is just 8 examples there are another 8982 more of them with rediculous additional spending. Now granted "earmarks" are not a new thing, but when you are talking about passing a bill which is ment to give the economy a boost these kinds of additions are just unneeded... Not to mention the fact that one of Obama's platforms he ran under was to eliminate these earmarks from bills.

[Dionysos]

economy is like an airplane, in this case one that is about to crash: injecting money into it is like pulling the airplane up. You MUST pull up to make sure you dont go nosedown into the ground, but do it to much and you'll enter into a stall, and crash even harder...

the us government HAS to spend money, without it the economy will fall. The amounts of which, is another matter. Whether its too much or too little i cant tell. Too much and the depths will bankrupt the country. Too little and the economy will crash, causing a (you guessed it) bankrupcy. Do it just right, and the country MAY survive untill the next economic crash. Which way it will go, only time can tell...

sry thats bs. the money doesnt come from outside the economy, nor is it getting "used up" by the economy as if it was an engine. the economy will crash either way, because of the huge accumulation of debt on one side (that will never be paid back) and capital/money-on-the-bank. stimulating the economy by forcing more money in circulation which is financed by loans might temporarily help, but in the long run it will only worsen everything.

[zombie@computer]

economy is like an airplane, in this case one that is about to crash: injecting money into it is like pulling the airplane up. You MUST pull up to make sure you dont go nosedown into the ground, but do it to much and you'll enter into a stall, and crash even harder...

the us government HAS to spend money, without it the economy will fall. The amounts of which, is another matter. Whether its too much or too little i cant tell. Too much and the depths will bankrupt the country. Too little and the economy will crash, causing a (you guessed it) bankrupcy. Do it just right, and the country MAY survive untill the next economic crash. Which way it will go, only time can tell...

sry thats bs. the money doesnt come from outside the economy, nor is it getting "used up" by the economy as if it was an engine. the economy will crash either way, because of the huge accumulation of debt on one side (that will never be paid back) and capital/money-on-the-bank. stimulating the economy by forcing more money in circulation which is financed by loans might temporarily help, but in the long run it will only worsen everything.

there are very few countries without a dept, even in better times. Allmost all countries have a deficit. This has been so since atleast WWII. Still, the economy is relatively okay, even though its mostly founded by loans... Im not saying you can loan forever, on the contrary, but i am saying that sometimes it requires a loan to make money to repay your loans.