Government Heath care in the US

[Bema]

don't they take like 60% percent of your paycheck?

I pay the Basic Rate which is about 20%. The lower rate is 10%, and the higher rate is 40%.

[MayheM]

I just read that Obama is leaving the door open for a new tax on health care benefits received by an employer... That sounds an awful lot like penalizing people for using something other then the system the government wants to put into place. Which in tern will make Employers stop offering it and force people to use only one plan. That one plan being the one the government wants to run. This means it will kill the private insurance companies and therefor cost thousands upon thousands of jobs. I don't really see this health care proposal as being a "Good Idea". With the economy in the tank I hardly think doing anything to hurt jobs and farther the unemployment rate (currently at 9.1% despite the fact the people where told the stimulus plan would help stop it below 8%) This is looking more and more to me like a power grab.

Governmental Meddling Checklist...

Banks (done)
Automotive (done)
Health Care (on its way)

What is next? And why are some people still totally enamored by this president?

[Bema]

Is there a middle ground in the US when it comes to health care? So people below a certain income threshold recieve free treatment, or the cost is subsidised by the State?

The sheer size of the US makes these things difficult. Something silly like a population of 300+ million?

[Mr. Happy]

I just skimmed the past couple pages, just want to point out a few things:
economy is not in the tank.
medicare/medicaid is bloated primarily because they cannot negotiate prices with providers (I know this is true of medications but I think it applies to all things, not sure tho)
malpractice definitely needs to go out the window. There is nothing wrong with a person receiving fair compensation for gross negligence resulting in gross harm, but it's way too fucking far. It should be capped at five million and be available only for the most serious of issues. Rectifiable mistakes should be rectified for free and if there is a payout it should be under 100k.

There's just so god damn much inefficiency in the system. I have becoming more and more pro-market, but not on health care. Look at this hierarchy:
Insurance Reseller -> Insurance Provider -> Medical Service Provider -> Hospital -> Group Practice -> Doctor and that's I assume a massive oversimplification. Healthcare should simply not be packaged and sold in units and networks. I'm all for private insurance, but it should be "you give us money and when you get hurt we give any doctor who is appropriate to your concerns money" It should be illegal to for an insurance company to, say, refuse covering you for treatment from specific doctors/establishments.

[MayheM]

I was just listening to Robert Gibbs talking about what they want to have in the health care reform. One major push for the "public option" is so that they will eliminate people being turned down because of preexisting conditions as well as regulating cost to be sure people do not have to pay too much. I don't really understand why that can not be done without a public option. Why can they not just put regulations in place to stop that stuff from happening? I also read about talks of fines for those people who do not purchase insurance. To me that is just another way for the government to take our money. I am not stupid, I know I am very lucky to have health insurance and be very happy with my coverage. But I look at both sides and just can not see the reasoning behind the big push for a public option. Hey I am all for tax breaks for those who do not have health insurance to help people who are not covered get coverage. We all know there are people out there who can afford insurance but choose not to purchase it. I was one of those people a few years back.

Anyway, all I am getting at is that the public option just seems like an unnecessary thing. The benefits of it can be accomplished without getting the government involved beyond federal regulations. I think if it where not for the retarded amount of money the government has spent in the past year I don't know if this would be as big of a deal.

[cashed]

I have really no complaints about our system in Canada, other than budget cuts, and internal provincial party spending problems.

The USA is just to arrogant to see whats blindfolding them. They'd rather see business fuck you to obesity and make you pay for life support, then preventative and gov funded health care. The nation wants healthy citizens because that means less money spent, unlike profit hungry business men.

[Jman]

Lovin the healthcare here in Canada. C:

[Sathor]

I guess that is the main problem. As Americans would have been unable to even find Iraq on a map without labelling, I guess they are more than unable to look at other countries. Every other industrialisied nation - Canada, Great Britian, Japan, France, Norway, Germany, etc - have a better health care system.
Americans are just afraid of ... everything. I mean have you been reading the news lately? The uproar about Obama wanting to speak to kids, etc? That is the same.
Pure stupidity.

[MayheM]

The uproar about Obama speaking to the kids happened because it appears to be a ploy to win back public opinion. Obama has lost a lot of support over this plan. He came out and wanted to give a speech to kids who first off do not ask hard questions. They just sit there and listen. He speaks to them about things everyone believes. This in theory calms the masses. There is no part of this that does not seem staged to me. But that's just because I see politics as shady.

But back to health care. I have heard things about health care in other countries (Canada, Great Britain, etc) that suggest they are in no way better than the currant US health care system. The fact is if you are healthy it does not matter what the health care is like. Even a cold or a minor injury is not really an issue. But when you talk about cancer, or major illnesses like that it is a different story. The death rate for something like Prostate cancer is lower in the US then it is in both Canada and Great Britain. I have also heard government officials from Canada and Great Britain say their system is spending more money then it takes in. So in turn it is bankrupting the government. Also think of it this way...
Population of Great Britain: 60,943,912
Population of Canada: 33,212,696
Population of France: 61,538,322
Population of Germany: 82,369,552
Total of All Those: 238,064,482
Population of USA: 304,059,724
What is being proposed it to have the Government provide a plan available to all of the people in the USA. We are talking more than all those countries combined. then you add the fact that when the government buys a hammer they put on the recite that it cost them $1000. Our government is corrupt and Obama has done nothing to make me think he is changing things. So why in Gods name would I want them to be involved in something like my health? The US health care system is not perfect. It needs fixing for sure. But I do not think the government needs to be involved to do that.

As for saying Americans are scared. Well the value of the Dollar is dropping, 1 in every 10 people in the country is out of work, the government wants to pass a bill called cap and trade which may have good intentions but will make companies move factories overseas which will cost even more Americans their jobs, the government bailed out the car companies so they did not have to cut jobs but dealerships where still closed and people are still loosing jobs, the stimulus bill was passed because Obama said the unemployment rate would go to 8% if we did not pass it (it is now at 9.7%) and it passed. All of this is going on and Obama just told the country we are headed in the right direction. Hell yeah we are scared!!! The big debate going on is more about government spending then it is about health care reform. People are wondering where the money is going to come from. Obama has said he will not raise taxes for people who make less then $250,000 a year. Well if he does not raise taxes how in the hell will he pay for the health care bill. Right now something like 15% of the US population pays about 80% of the taxes. So those 15% will get a tax hike? The term redistribution of wealth is often used. I wonder if there is some truth to what those who use the term are saying. I am not blaming all the problems on Obama, a lot of the problems started long ago, but he just has not done anything, in my opinion, to make me feel better about where this country is going.

[Stubby]

Mayhem is my gay lover.
he spoke so i didn't have to.

Some REAL health-care reform would Involve allowing Healthcare companies to work across state borders.

[MayheM]

I saw something last night that scared me a bit. Not too long ago a Joe Wilson a representative from South Carolina heckled Obama saying "You Lie" in from of the Congress and on national TV when the president was giving his speech on heath care reform. Some of you may have heard about this, most of the people in the US have. The outcry by the South Carolina Rep. came after Obama stated that the public option would not cover illegal aliens. However, apparently this is not really true. According to a precedence set in Texas the government can not refuse anyone who lives in this country, legally or otherwise, the benefits of a government funded program. The case involved public education, and the court ruled that it was unconstitutional to withhold the benefits of public schools to illegal citizens since the constitution protects anyone who lives on American soil and not just it's legal citizens. In fact the senate finance comity budget assessment for the bill on the table actually had illegal aliens factored into the cost.

That said, Obama may have a plan to put an amendment in the bill to try and stop this, however the Supreme court would have no choice but to shoot that amendment down. So it is likely that is a heath care reform bill is passed with anything resembling a public option, illegal aliens will be entitled to the benefits. So if you think we have a problem with people crossing the border now, it will pail in comparison to what will happen...

[Dionysos]

Wow, for once your constitution guarantees "libertarian" rights?

I'm not saying "free" medical for illegal immigrants is good; I am pointing out that changing an age-old constitution is something that should be considered this century.

Oh, and I read on factcheck.org that his healt care plan excludes illegal immigrants, but that it *will* add to the national deficit.

On a related note, the whole new health care (heath(en) care?) debate is a farce. The democrats basically watered down their demands before going into "battle", nothing will change, as usual. Keep on dying down to bad luck, great.

[nub]

This will just inflame our taxes. The government's revenue is income tax, and if they need to spend billions+ to make this new health care system happen, what else can they do but raise taxes?

I don't know, it just seems that a change like this isn't the best move for a country in this condition.


PS: Regarding illegal immigrants hopping the border...I don't get why they don't just fortify the shit out of the fences...I mean...really...make the walls concrete and steel; 15 feet tall if they have to. If they want to solve this problem, that is all they need to do.

[Saxon]

I'm a bit late weighing in here, but I might as well speak up. Living in the UK I have to say I'm extremely grateful for our Health Service. It's really useful to have access to it anytime you need it - you might have some small unexpected injury. All you need to do is wander into a hospital / surgery and you'll be taken care of, you don't need to worry about having damned medical card on you all the time.

As far as I'm concerned it doesn't cost me much in taxes, nor is it a huge burden on the Government. In fact our Health Service is the largest employer in the UK (and the second largest employer in the world), over 1 million people work for it. Those people pay taxes too - so as far as I see this is a win-win scenario.
Since America has roughly four times the population of the UK this could be a great way of getting people back to work.

If you're worried about increased taxation, it won't really hit the working classes or middle classes of America particularly hard. Only the upper class will face significantly increased taxes. Whats wrong with that?

[BaRRaKID]

What i find more problematic about this situation is that, from what I see in the news, instead of discussing the advantages and disadvantages of this health care system, they ended out arguing about whether that would make the US more Socialist or not... dudes WTF!
I'm from Portugal (that's in Europe in case you're wondering) and our current prime minister is from the socialist party, we have lots of politics that may be considered socialistic, and the same thing happens in many other countries in Europe. And guess what? No one cares what you call it, what matters is if theses laws are better or worst for the population.
Now talking about my country, and our health care system. First we do have universal health care, and I can't imagine not having it. It's like one of those things you expect your government to do since you're born, which is to pay your medical costs.
It does have some nuances though. First you always pay 10€ when you go to the Hospital which is a symbolic amount used to cover medical costs, you also pay a bit more if you need any kind of special treatments.
When you've to buy meds, if you choose generic meds (those that are not branded) the government pays like 80% of the total price, if they're non-generic meds you pay full price. Some other non generic meds that are specific for certain conditions (like AIDS, diabetes, asma, etc) also have a part of their price paid by the government.
Now the nice part. You can then pick all your health related receipts, and send them with your taxes declaration. Then based on how much you earned that year, you get a certain percentage (can go all the way up to 100%) of all your medical costs deducted from your taxes. For families that have low incomes that means that the government will give them back all the money that they spent on health care.
But I don't see this working in the US, because I imagine lots of people would start evading taxes by using fake receipts and stuff like that, and would start with the Socialism debate again.
Ho and we also have health insurance here, but they're kind of expensive (around 50/60€ per month) and they can only be used on certain (mostly private) clinics. They're mostly used to pay for dentist bills (since the government doesn't include these on the health care system) , and for when you've to resort to a private specialist after the public ones can't figure out what's wrong with you.