Government Heath care in the US

[Simpletool]

The debt is ridiculous! It will only get worse. I find it interesting how people say the bill will reduce the debt over the next 10 years. Well first of all there is no way that can be true. If you cover 30,000,000 more people no amount of cuts to Medicaid will help the debt go down. That is unless they raise taxes.

Why do you have such an issue with the price tag we're being presented with health reform but I have yet to hear you complain of the cost accumulated in Iraq and Afghanistan, or the 56 billion dollars in military grants given to Israel to conduct an illegal war of attrition (not including the 1.92 billion given annually), or the 90 billion dollars used to construct Yucca Mountain? For 0.9% of the combined cost you could provide every person within the U.S. with free healthcare.

I'm also curious what education you've received that entitles you to make judgment calls on billion dollar legislation without any statistical evidence?

You have yet to provide any evidence to support the porous fabric that constructs every emotional argument you've made. So let's start by cutting out the bullshit and inject some sanity into the debate.

First we'll take a look at healthcare costs in the U.S. and compare them against nations with socialized medicine.






Now lets look at who is providing (or in 86.7 million cases, not providing) Americans with health insurance.



Now one should be able to safely assume the more a nation spends on healthcare the greater quality of care its citizens receive. It would seem like a reasonable correlation, unfortunately for the U.S. reality doesn't share this sentiment.

Mortality rates of patients.



Life Expectancy





Infant Mortality



Wait Times




Best in the World (if you can afford it)

[Dionysos]

Thanks a lot for those! Very interesting and handy!

[MayheM]

I would say the reason you have not heard me complain about those costs on this thread are probably because this thread is about health care reform in the US. Not about the funding of wars.

I do have issues with the amount of money Bush started spending. He spent more than any president in history. However that all changed when Obama got into office. He looked at what Bush spent and was all about saying "I can outspend that guy" My problem with the government is not directed at either party. My opposition to this bill is based entirely on the cost and the fact that we can not afford it. Sure the prices of health care are going up. This bill claims that is will curb that. It is based upon the Massachusetts health care legislation which has proved to increase premiums since it was instituted. I would say it would be a far better plan to focus on job creation and get people to work, then many of those without insurance could afford to buy it on their own, or even get it through their employer. I am also opposed to the way this bill was contrived. Despite the fact Obama has apparently taken some of the deals out of his proposal which was presented last Monday, they are still in the senate bill which is being voted upon. But like I said the big issue is money. The government is spending like it is not a problem. They are killing this nation with the debt that Bush started and Obama has made worse in his one year in office!

But lets put that all aside. Lets talk about the "budget reconciliation" they want to use. What they are calling a "simple majority" or just shortening it to "reconciliation". As the actual name says. It is meant for budget matters. In other words when a budget needs to be presented by a deadline and one side is holding it up, it needs to be passed by that deadline. This is not the case with this bill. There is no actual deadline, only the one proposed by the Dems of before Easter break. This is so they will not go home like they did over last summer and hear their people scream about how mad they are that they still plan on passing this bill despite the large amount of people who do not support this specific bill. I am not saying people do not want health care reform. People are worried about the cost, that part is true. But this specific bill stinks worse then a dead hookers snatch. Ironically there is a big push to get this done asap, but the benefits do not start for several years. However we start paying for it right away. That is how they are trying to make it appear debt neutral.

But honestly as far as those numbers and charts you posted, things like that can be slanted in any way depending on the view of the people doing the studies. Studies can lie. The fact that we are over out heads in debt is fact and there is no fudging those numbers.