Poll: Story line in multiplayer!??!?!

[tymaxbeta]

Now here is a good one, do you think the story maters in a multiplayer game? I know I never think about the history of the world I'm running through killing zombies, why would anyone else? Now this is a good question because If you figure, Valve never cares about story in multiplayer, and neither do us modders, but a multiplayer mod with a decent story has never been made, and we here are going to discus if one should be. I personally am thinking its a no, but there's always room for change in gaming world.

[Megadude]

Valve never cares about story in multiplayer

Complete bollocks. Have you never even heard of TF2 and L4D? You may not be playing through the story bit by bit like in a single player game, but there is still a background story to these games to explain why the player is doing what they need to do. Even CSS has a bit of a background to it. It doesn't take much to come up with some kind of story to go along with the game or mod. To not do so is just pure laziness.

[cpl. punishment]

Maybe I'm strange this way, but I always appreciate if a mapper is trying to tell a story in their multiplayer maps. I like it when both sides of the battle have a reason for being there, rather than there just being mindless fighting. Must be why I don't much care for orange maps.

[tymaxbeta]

OK, whats the story of zombie panic?

That's all I have to say. Because, if someone made a multiplayer game with NPCs and a well written storyline, I wonder what would happen? Oh, wait, we already know, go play HL2 co-op on Synergy, and see how people act, they don't take the story line seriously, and that's HL2, the "best game ever made" as said by PC gamer. If people don't take HL2 seriously in co-op, then why take a 3rd party mod's story seriously?

I always appreciate if a mapper is trying to tell a story in their multiplayer maps. I like it when both sides of the battle have a reason for being there, rather than there just being mindless fighting. Must be why I don't much care for orange maps.

I like the same thing in all maps

[no00dylan]

OK, whats the story of zombie panic?

That's all I have to say. Because, if someone made a multiplayer game with NPCs and a well written storyline, I wonder what would happen? Oh, wait, we already know, go play HL2 co-op on Synergy, and see how people act, they don't take the story line seriously, and that's HL2, the "best game ever made" as said by PC gamer. If people don't take HL2 seriously in co-op, then why take a 3rd party mod's story seriously?

zombie panic wasnt valve

[tymaxbeta]

zombie panic wasnt valve

Who ever said it was, are you trying to derail the topic?

[ƒray]

You said

Valve never cares about story in multiplayer, so this leads the topic towards valve and assuming a skimming reader would just say that,

But anyways, for multiplayer, most people wan't multiplayer but a nice backstory is nice,

like Natural selection mod had a backstory etc

[Chopium]

There should a be a reason to drive the players' actions, but beyond that nothing much else is needed IMO.
(A.K.A. The two rival companies in TF2.)

[tymaxbeta]

I'm not talking about a back story, I'm talking about a full fledged story you and your friends play through, like HL2 but you and your friends are the rebels playing through(just an example) a storyline just as well written as HL2, would you care about the story and characters as much as you would in single player is the question this topic is about, not back story, the story happening as you play.

[Chopium]

Too bad this never came out. I would have liked seeing this play out.

[tymaxbeta]

*Video*

Too bad this never came out. I would have liked seeing this play out.

That's kinda exactly what I was talking about, but notice it was never made, and are we positive a storyline as exact as HL2s happened in the multiplayer gameplay, in the words of the tootsie pop narrator - "The world may never know."

[tymaxbeta]

OK, so what conclusion have we come to?

EDIT: So from what I"ve seen here, it appears as though back story[or the motivational reasons of doing an action] is a valid,and a needed, thing to make in your multiplayer mods, while the story that unfolds while playing will generally be ignored in multiplayer. to sum all that up; Back story good, unfolding story ignored, In multiplayer, the last thing you want to do is make a single player mod by those terms

OK, well that's that, case closed

[Guessmyname]

What happened to Co:op SP?

The main problem with storylines in MP is that you have to tie it to the gameplay, or more specifically, the players' goals. To elude:

The main problem with storylines in MP is that you have to tie it to the gameplay, or more specifically, the players' goals. To elude:

Standard DM can't cram much story in, as the objective is just 'kill everyone else / the other team'. In these cases, the best you can get is a reason for wanting to kill the other side. For example, CS:S is counter-terrorists vs terrorists, 'nuff said. HL2DM is Rebels vs Combine during the rebellion, 'nuff said. UT is a gigantic tournament thingie, which pretty much explains all the game mechanics. Similar problem for gamemodes like CTF and KOTH; there's only so many reasons you can make for snatching someone else's flag (probably why they changed it to 'Intelligence' for TF2 - change the flag to something more theft-worthy, and voila, more story)

'Objective Games', where two sides compete to complete objectives (ie Dystopia) can squeeze in more story, to explain what the objectives are. Co:Op games pretty much are just SP with multiple players (does that count? Counter:Op might be a better fit). Take L4D for example; the player's goals are 'kill zombies, reach checkpoint'. This leaves plenty of room for showing the effects of the zombie apocalypse, and the chaos that ensued (the checkpoints are attempts by the governments to set up safe havens, the ammo/weapon caches and miniguns are similar efforts, all those 'Infection' posters etc)

Finally, you have what story you can integrate into the map. L4D's Hospital level, for example, has the added story of the chaos of the hospital trying to find a cure (all those IV hangars with 'CONTAMINATED' on them, the patient/nurse/doctor infected etc). The Airport has lots of little nuggets of plot/story because it shows the evacuation efforts before everything went to hell (read some of the posters on the way out of the final checkpoint). There's a lot of stuff you can cram in for a map, story-wise; how each side got there (ie there's usually an APC or similar near the CT spawn in CS:S maps), what happened to previous occupants of the area (ie 'zombies' for L4D) and, of course, what the area was previously used for prior to becoming a hunting ground (ie cs_office was - obviously - previously used as an office before it got attacked).

So, all in all, you can get story into an MP map/game/level/gizmo. As long as it ties into either the map or the player's goals, it'll be noticed. You can't just have a bloke sit around and lecture the players for a few minutes every now and then to shove it down their throats; you have to be subtle. If it stops or halts the gameplay, it'll just become an obstacle and thus unpopular (hence L4D's short intro/outro scenes - if you listen to the commentary, they used to be longer, but they cut them down because players didn't like sitting through them over and over again). Part of the problem is also other players; given they're the 'goal' (ie kill that person before he kills you') in most cases, they're the bigger distraction. One of L4D's strengths in this area is that the enemy are not the other players, they're NPCs, and thus part of the map and incapable of breaking the suspension of belief (ie they're not going to start spontaneously bunny-hopping everywhere...). The replayability also helps as players can easily go through the campaign again later on and catch the bits they missed the first time around (which in turns adds to the replayability as you go around looking for them)

Finally, it has to be obvious. If you have to sit back and explain it, you've got a problem. DOD:S is Allied vs Axis - that needs no explanation. Ditto CS:S. The Hidden requires a bit of explanation, but it handles it well (it's done in a tutorial mission) and it isn't hard to pick up. Dystopia is Punks vs Corporations, which is practically the staple of Cyberpunk everywhere. L4D and Zombie Panic needs no explanation whatsoever; it's frickin' zombies. In all the above cases, they're pretty much pre-known quantities. The audience can be reasonably expected to understand what each side is simply from a glance or looking at a name. TF2 handles this slightly differently, in that it's not two separate teams fighting each other, it's a bunch of distinct (visually, vocally, gameplay-ly), characterised lunatics, easy to catch onto at a glance, and each one themselves a cliche (with the probable exception of the demoman, though he's still a spectacular 'Crazy Bomber' archetype). They don't try to hide it though, they just run with it, into the fields and far away - it's what makes the TF2 'story' so much fun. JB is similar: everyone loves robots, everyone loves dinosaurs. The two of them having a bit of a scrap? Well, why not!

In short, story in Multiplayer needs to be shown, not told. Visual storytelling is the main thing here; the player is not going to sit around and listen / read as it's likely to get his head shot off / shins nibbled at. Take the terminal in the L4D airport. One of the metal detectors have been knocked over; the player has to take notice of and use this because walking through the others will bring a horde of zombies down on your face. All the abandoned cars have to be paid their due in case one of them is alarmed, which forces the player's attention to the abandoned police cars with their lights still on, or the abandoned ambulance (with medikits in!). Finally, if there's enough spectacle / awesomeness, the players will notice it simply by factor of it being impossible to ignore; take pretty much every plane crash in L4D. The cinematic one at the start of the final level is impossible to miss you're funnelled through a corridor, thus constricting your view and making the big-ass plane coming down to crash impossible to miss. And the aforementioned terminal has one smashed into the goddamn ceiling. In front of the airport there's another one, which gets your attention because you have to climb over / around it. So Show, Don't Tell; the players will notice it if you do it right.

(Waffling Wall Of Text Ability... +1!)

[KILLA-COW]

I like football/championship manager because you make your own story.

[Major Banter]

Where's the "I don't give a shit, because my opinion is going to get twisted back at me" option?

Just an observation.