Thoughts on A Substance-Free Lifestyle

[Saxon]

It's funny how round those figures are...

Do these magical figures also dispute all the people dying in gang related drug wars? What about people who die driving whilst stoned?

[Ark11]

I heard that 13 people die per year by being crushed by falling Vending Machines? Add that to your list of US deaths!

[Phott]

It's funny how round those figures are...

Do these magical figures also dispute all the people dying in gang related drug wars? What about people who die driving whilst stoned?

Well perhaps it should be legalized to decrease the gang related stuff, however just like with alcohol; taking the substance while driving is your own responsibility and against the law.

[zombie@computer]

1

Myth: Marijuana is a dangerous drug
Any discussion of marijuana should begin with the fact that there have been numerous official reports and studies, every one of which has concluded that marijuana poses no great risk to society and should not be criminalized. These include:

* the National Academy of Sciences Analysis of Marijuana Policy (1982);
* the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse (the Shafer Report) (1973);
* the Canadian Government's Commission of Inquiry (Le Dain Report) (1970);
* the British Advisory Committee on Drug Dependency (Wooton Report) (1968);
* the La Guardia Report (1944);
* the Panama Canal Zone Military Investigations (1916-29);
* and Britain's monumental Indian Hemp Drugs Commission (1893-4).

It is sometimes claimed that there is ``new evidence'' showing marijuana is more harmful than was thought in the sixties. In fact, the most recent studies have tended to confirm marijuana's safety, refuting claims that it causes birth defects, brain damag e, reduced testosterone, or increased drug abuse problems.

The current consensus is well stated in the 20th annual report of the California Research Advisory Panel (1990), which recommended that personal use and cultivation of marijuana be legalized: "An objective consideration of marijuana shows that it is respo nsible for less damage to society and the individual than are alcohol and cigarettes."

References: The National Academy of Sciences report, Marijuana and Health (National Academy Press, 1982), remains the most useful overview of the health effects of marijuana, its major conclusions remaining largely unaffected by the last 10 years of research. Lovinger and Jones, The Marihuana Question (Dod d, Mead & Co., NY 1985), is the most exhaustive and fair-handed summary of the evidence against marijuana. Good, positive perspectives may be found in Lester Grinspoon's Marihuana, the Forbidden Medicine (Yale Press, 1993) and Marihuana Reconsidere d (Harvard U. Press 1971), which debunks many of the older anti-pot myths. See also Leo Hollister, Health Aspects of Cannabis, Pharmacological Reviews 38:1-20 (1986).

Up to the Table of Myths.

Myth: Marijuana is harmless
Just as most experts agree that occasional or moderate use of marijuana is innocuous, they also agree that excessive use can be harmful. Research shows that the two major risks of excessive marijuana use are:

1. respiratory disease due to smoking and
2. accidental injuries due to impairment.

Marijuana and Smoking:A recent survey by the Kaiser Permanente Center found that daily marijuana-only smokers have a 19% higher rate of respiratory complaints than non-smokers.(1) These findings were not unexpected, since it has long been known that, aside from its psychoactive ingredients, marijuana smoke contains virtually the same toxic gases and carcinogenic tars as tobacco. Human studies have found that pot smokers suffer similar kinds of respiratory damage as tobacco smokers, putting them at greater risk of bronchitis, sore throat, respiratory inflammation and infections.(2)

Although there has not been enough epidemiological work to settle the matter definitively, it is widely suspected that marijuana smoking causes cancer. Studies have found apparently pre-cancerous cell changes in pot smokers.(3) Some cancer specialists have reported a higher-than-expected incidence of throat, neck and tongue cancer in younger, marijuana-only smokers.(4) A couple of cases have been fatal. While it has not been conclusively proven that marijuana smoking causes lung cancer, the evidence is highly suggestive. According to Dr. Donald Tashkin of UCLA, the leading expert on marijuana smoking:(5)"Although more information is certainly needed, sufficient data have already been accumulated concerning the health effects of marijuana to warrant counseling by physicians against the smoking of marijuana as an important hazard to health." Fortunately, the hazards of marijuana smoking can be reduced by various strategies:

1. use of higher-potency cannabis, which can be smoked in smaller quantities,
2. use of waterpipes and other smoke reduction technologies,(6) and
3. ingesting pot orally instead of smoking it.

source: http://www.lycaeum.org/paranoia/marijua ... ology.html

2: http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view ... nID=000231

3: @ numbers above: fetched from various studies where there is a great incosistency in inclusion and exclusion criteria (eg indirect causes of death) the studies are incomparable. The numbers mean diddly do.
A last thought: Lets say marijuana increases the risk for a hearth attack but literature suggests it does not. If someone would die because of a hearth attack due to marijuna, this will be registered as death by hearth attack, not death by marijuana use. Simply because the pathologist would not think about marijuana being the underlying cause. A lot of studies use s official death registry to come up with these numbers, but this creates a biassed result. If you want to compare causes of death, you need to check each death for use of the causes you want to compare, which is not done standardly when someone dies because standard tests depend on official literature. Still following me?

[Saxon]

If you're going to quote sources, at least choose medical journals :F
Those reports you cite are also incredibly old - the oldest being... 1893. O_O Whilst refuting modern reports seems nuts from a scientific point of view - you can't dismiss something if it's politically inconvenient.

[Major Banter]

I will not read any evidence that - as Saxon states - is not a medical journal. And therefore unaccepted by the vast majority of the scientific community; which contrary to popular belief is not a bunch of anti-drug fanatics but raw, unadultered scientist who work on one principle: facts to prove all points.

My source on that opinion? A PhD brother. In Chemistry. Next to the Med labs. Not exactly refutable.

On another point, while Cannabis doesn't outright kill you, a coroner's report will state something quite interesting.

Death while under the influence of drugs. Lethal impact related injuries from a fall. Gunshot wounds. Knife wounds. Wounds of idiocy and drug gangs.

Actually, let's follow that point.

Drug gangs deal in mainly Crack, Cocaine and Cannabis. It's lucrative business and commands billions of dollars on a world scale. Equally, that trade is extremely violent and utterly ruthless. I'm not saying a joint every so often costs a human life nor that you're funding it.

I just feel that not only do 'stoners' or 'potheads' continuously refute evidence with hearsay and pseudoscience - then call others bigoted and hypocritical when presented with no more than counter facts are hopelessly blinkered and softened into some 'superiority' which presents itself rather interestingly in a variety of ways. Such as copy/paste dumps, rants about an individual's ingesting of 'GMO potatoes' and thier lack of survival skills, blase and incorrect statements and sheer outrage at clear cut statements.

In other words.

I think Cannabis should be monitored and legalised for a single reason - control.

[MáØ]

I don't know what you guys are on about, but around here I know like, 50ish people that grow 1-2 plants themselves for personal use only, nobody cares, its thrown in with the other stuff in the garden.

The flowers are actually pretty...

[Major Banter]

Canada; it's legal.

Heh.

[zombie@computer]

the sources are a bit dated i agree, but they are founded on scientific studies. Look em up if you will. I just quoted them to show a few views on the matter, not as full-fledged medical study sources. I used these two sites because they nicely sum up my thoughts of marijuana, which are

1) its not ultimately deadly. You wont die two seconds after your first joint.
2) its not healthy enough to say 'doesnt matter if you do it or not, the consequences are so minor that you shouldt care'

TLDR: the truth is somewhere in the middle:

I think Cannabis should be monitored and legalised for a single reason - control.

Agree.

[Hellraz0r]

Lol Saxon, obviously these are rounded numbers to make it easier to read. Try watching this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 651731007#

And even if these numbers aren't 100% original, we still know marijuana hasn't killed anyone, while alcohol and tobacco continue to do so, and not to mention our day-to-day prescription and painkiller drugs.

Gang related drug wars? Well, legalizing marijuana would help stop the violence and cut the black market in half. If it were legalized, it could be controlled much easier. Prohibition has caused more harm than marijuana itself, dealers don't ask for ID, liquor stores do.

Also, for those are may be interested:
http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

It talks about the myths and facts of marijuana. There are many websites which enforce the things said, however of course there are a lot of websites which are full of fake articles, for example:

http://www.emaxhealth.com/1020/22/34829 ... known.html
via Emax Health
“New research shows that teens who consume cannabis daily can suffer anxiety and depression. Smoking marijuana can have long-term irreversible effects on adolescent brains, and is more harmful to teens than previously known.”

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/12/ ... -rats.html
via CBC News
“The findings suggest daily marijuana use by teens can cause depression and anxiety, and have an irreversible effect on the brain.”

(plus a few more.)

Sounds like you, huh? It’s suppose to scare you. Only there’s three serious problems with the mainstream media’s alarmist coverage.
1) No adolescents — or for that matter, any human beings whatsoever — actually participated in the study.
2) No actual cannabis was consumed in the study.
3) No permanent brain damage was reported in the study.

Don’t believe me? Well then, check out the actual source of the headlines yourself.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19969082
via PubMed
“We tested this hypothesis by administering the CB(1) receptor agonist WIN55,212-2, once daily for 20 days to adolescent and adult rats. … Chronic adolescent exposure but not adult exposure to low (0.2 mg/kg) and high (1.0 mg/kg) doses led to depression-like behaviour in the forced swim and sucrose preference test, while the high dose also induced anxiety-like consequences in the novelty-suppressed feeding test. … These (findings) suggest that long-term exposure to cannabinoids during adolescence induces anxiety-like and depression-like behaviours in adulthood and that this may be instigated by serotonergic hypoactivity and noradrenergic hyperactivity.”

To summarize: Investigators administered daily doses of a highly potent synthetic cannabinoid receptor agonist WIN,55,212-2 to both adolescent rats and adult rats for 20 days. Days following their exposure, researchers documented altered serotonin production in younger rats. (Why investigators presumed that the change in serotonin production would be permanent I have no idea. After the initial 20-day waiting period, researchers do not appear to have tested the rats’ serotonin levels ever again.) Researchers also documented supposed depression-like and anxiety-like behavior in certain rats, based on various elaborate animal models and preference tests.
Yet somehow based on this speculative preclinical evidence, the mainstream media — in unison — proclaimed:

Reefer badness
via San Diego Tribune
“A study of Canadian teenagers … found that smoking the illicit drug is harder on young brains than originally thought. Writing in the journal Neurobiology of Disease, researchers at McGill University in Montreal said daily consumption of cannabis in teens can cause significant depression and anxiety and have an irreversible long-term effect on the brain.”

In truth, the purported ’study’ never said anything of the sort!

[Spike]

All natural drugs should be legal. Laboratory drugs not.

(BTW, I don't smoke and I don't take drugs)

[Hollow]

Why has this now turned solely into a debate about the legalization of marijuana and it's minor effects? Lol.

[Phott]

Why has this now turned solely into a debate about the legalization of marijuana and it's minor effects? Lol.

You really didn't see it coming?

[zombie@computer]

Why has this now turned solely into a debate about the legalization of marijuana and it's minor effects? Lol.

Some people seem quite fierce in trying to make other people believe them. It's like discussing with conspiracy theorists

[Saxon]

Why has this now turned solely into a debate about the legalization of marijuana and it's minor effects? Lol.

Some people seem quite fierce in trying to make other people believe them. It's like discussing with conspiracy theorists

Oh god, I once looked at the MODDB forums and there were stacks of conspiracy theory posts all by one guy. But then again, it's MODDB so that explains a lot.

@ Hellrazor. *sigh*
Still doesn't answer my question about deaths related to use of pot.

I never did say "derp, I think smoking pot will kill you from smoking pot alone!" So I don't know where you're getting that from. Sorry but you wasted your time with that massive post :<