Thoughts on A Substance-Free Lifestyle

[Hemuuuli]

I had an interesting experience in the military service being teetotaler. Military service is compulsary in Finland but you can also do a civil service (no guns) or be total refuser and go to jail (one of my friends even did this). I have art school education, I don't like real guns, most of my friends didn't go to army etc. - I went because I was curious. The army wasn't very pleasing place but I still took a longer training in there (9 months) as Tactical medic for military police team. When my friends in the army went for holidays they did nothing but drink. The precent of smokers in Finland is the highest in army (34/40 smoked in my medical training course...). At first it seemed that I didn't have much common intrests with the people there but against all odds many of my army friends was interested in my lifestyle as teetotaler and why someone like me who clearly doesn't belong in the army was there. We had multiple good discussions in this subject and it seemed to broaden the ideology of couple of people. At the moment after the army I am thinking to change my war time placement to civil service because I don't want to support army but it is not very likely that anyone attacks here anytime soon. Finland has a reputation as heavy drinking country but it is turning in opposite direction at the moment. I know a lot teetotalers. It looks like the situtation among youth in Britain is very bad - is it?

[[frank]]

Cheers
I've got so many gigs to see this year
The Bronx, Ruiner/Carpathian, Converge, Lewd Acts, The Carrier (again), Polar Bear Club to name a couple haha, should be great fun!

edit: I was browsing Defeater's myspace a moment ago and stumbled across this picture...

WTF, APERTURE SCIENCE???

Ah, jealous as of now. Wishing I could see some of those bands play.

Portal is true hardcore. All people must know that!


Anyway, on topic: for the most part, substance-free is appealing to me. Sure, I find it a little stupid to completely avoid all alcohol, because, for the most part, being sociable and drinking moderately usually tends to be a good night out. Hell, having that touch of drink takes a bit of the edge off a cold night, and makes you laugh at your idiotic friends.
Avoiding alcohol completely has its merits, but for me, it isn't what I am going for.

Substances and drugs, they are, on the otherhand, incredibly stupid in my mind. I understand they can pick you up, mellow you out, turn you inside out, etc etc, but too many times I have seen people turn horribly worse because of them. They area a straight up no for me, but if I were to be talking to somebody that I knew did drugs, it wouldn't change how I interact with them, and to what level I respect them. To see yourself as better, or, to see the substance abuser as inferior is wrong.

A straight-edge lifestyle in my mind is also a little useless. If you choose to not drink or take drugs, why do you have to label yourself to a certain group of people? Especially when those who are straight-edge decide that "breaking edge" is the most vile crime a person can commit. It just doesn't feel right, especially those people who are edge that just act and look like total dicks, and probably only act that way because they have this "edge" title.

Of course, I am 17. Under the drinking age. I wonder how much this skews my opinion.

[Hollow]

Cheers
I've got so many gigs to see this year
The Bronx, Ruiner/Carpathian, Converge, Lewd Acts, The Carrier (again), Polar Bear Club to name a couple haha, should be great fun!

edit: I was browsing Defeater's myspace a moment ago and stumbled across this picture...

WTF, APERTURE SCIENCE???

Ah, jealous as of now. Wishing I could see some of those bands play.

Portal is true hardcore. All people must know that!


Anyway, on topic: for the most part, substance-free is appealing to me. Sure, I find it a little stupid to completely avoid all alcohol, because, for the most part, being sociable and drinking moderately usually tends to be a good night out. Hell, having that touch of drink takes a bit of the edge off a cold night, and makes you laugh at your idiotic friends.
Avoiding alcohol completely has its merits, but for me, it isn't what I am going for.

Substances and drugs, they are, on the otherhand, incredibly stupid in my mind. I understand they can pick you up, mellow you out, turn you inside out, etc etc, but too many times I have seen people turn horribly worse because of them. They area a straight up no for me, but if I were to be talking to somebody that I knew did drugs, it wouldn't change how I interact with them, and to what level I respect them. To see yourself as better, or, to see the substance abuser as inferior is wrong.

A straight-edge lifestyle in my mind is also a little useless. If you choose to not drink or take drugs, why do you have to label yourself to a certain group of people? Especially when those who are straight-edge decide that "breaking edge" is the most vile crime a person can commit. It just doesn't feel right, especially those people who are edge that just act and look like total dicks, and probably only act that way because they have this "edge" title.

Of course, I am 17. Under the drinking age. I wonder how much this skews my opinion.

Well i've been through the whole drinking phase to find out it wasn't for me

Hmm, it really depends on the person. You are going to get some people that are dicks in any group, culture, lifestyle etc...and it usually doesn't have anything to do with what they stand for. My thoughts on people breaking edge don't concern me, if my best friend broke edge I wouldn't be mad at him, it's his choice, he'll still be my friend....to throw away a friendship over something like that is doing no good. Unfortunately too, you get a lot of fakers. People who like claim the title, but then end up getting pissed every other weekend.

I do this for my self at the end of the day, a label is a label, it's just a description of the lifestyle. Maybe me and the people I know are more mellow and positive about it...like I said I'm Posi-edge in my outlook. I don't go round telling people off the bat that I'm edge, I'll let them find out.
The other reason for the SxE label is that though true edgers do it for themselves..there is a sense of community when you go to gigs..A shared conscience of sorts. There is even a national Edge Day, where it's just a giant hardcore punk festival .
i've yet to be to a straight edge only gig or whatever, but that's because I love all hardcore punk..I 'X' up only at shows, because I'm proud of what i believe in, yet I won't push it people's faces.

[Pwnd_Ja]

I do whatever the fuck I want so long as it dosn't interfere with life or studies. Drink at a party on a saturday night? Get drunk, but not so drunk i'm throwing up. I used to smoke quite a bit of weed, but it was in moderation. And by "moderation" I mean I could go to school high but it wouldn't interfere with my work, not that that was common practice. I've never been the type to get mindblowingly high (Lest I feel like owning the fuck out of myself on a weekend.), but i've done my experimentation with quite a few drugs that would be considered "hard". Done all that, drinking and weed once and awhile is all I want (Though it seems like a fucking lifetime since I last smoked.).

[antie]

Drugs should be embraced, rather than shunned. They are one of life's greatest pleasures. Alcohol and marijuana are essentially harmless if consumed sensibly. As for more damaging drugs like tobacco, cocaine, oxycontin etc., life's too short, we're all rotting away as we type. I also think that people should try a strong, safe hallucinogenic at least once in their lives, like Salvia, DMT or LSD.

[CorporalAris]

Well, I consume Alcohol and Marijuana on a regular basis, but I don't know if they should be, "embraced," persay, but they definitely aren't as bad as people make them out to be.

Also, I wouldn't place LSD in the group of "safe hallucinogenics."

[Major Banter]

Having seen what marijuana does to people I'm considerably put off. Anything addictive or alters your brain chemistry is in my opinion, hazardous and affects my abilities, cognition and stability; stuff I pride myself on having and perfecting.

I will not, ever, touch hallucinogens. And I'll keep my alcohol social and quietly low-proof.q

Odd? Nah. I'm usually the designated medic and I like being able to disable potential attacks because I'm not swinging my fists like a fucking troll.

[Zabiela]

Having seen what marijuana does to people I'm considerably put off. Anything addictive or alters your brain chemistry is in my opinion, hazardous and affects my abilities, cognition and stability; stuff I pride myself on having and perfecting.

I work at a very professional medical cannabis dispensary in CA (by professional I mean we're not pot dealers, we stress science and education and having an informed membership). All day I meet people from all walks of life who use cannabis daily. Your views on cannabis make me think you've just been around the wrong kind of users.
Its very interesting talking to adults (i'm 20) who've been smoking joints for 30+ years daily, and are accountants on top of their game, lawyers, movie producers, researches, doctors, chemists, students, teachers...

Its likely that cannabis use alters brain chemistry- however that is a very broad, unclear description of what it does (after all, we have our own endogenous cannabinoid system, ie your brain produces and uses its own version of THC), and in a sense, almost any consumable alters your brian chemistry. Its clear to me that any harmful or stupid activities cannabis users engage in are due to the user, and not the cannabis. A small amount of research into the facts shows little negative effects but a plethora of positive effects from cannabis use, intoxication aside.

Stupid people may smoke pot, but pot smokers are not stupid people. I think you should attempt to widen your view of what cannabis is and does to people.

I myself use cannabis almost daily for appetite stimulation, as i'm underweight, have a high metabolism and generally lack appetite (taking a hit and eating out= oh my joy); and just enjoyment on the same level as alcohol.


Whatever your views on the effects however, I hope you agree its a travesty that the plant is a Schedule 1 drug (no accepted medicinal use) per the US government. Its pretty plain to see that prohibition causes a lot more problems than solves. Don't even get me started on how they banned hemp along with it.


If you have any questions about medical cannabis i'd be glad to answer them.

[Jangalomph]

Drugs should be embraced, rather than shunned. They are one of life's greatest pleasures. Alcohol and marijuana are essentially harmless if consumed sensibly. As for more damaging drugs like tobacco, cocaine, oxycontin etc., life's too short, we're all rotting away as we type. I also think that people should try a strong, safe hallucinogenic at least once in their lives, like Salvia, DMT or LSD.

I fully disagree with this comment. I feel like it makes people look stupid and act stupid. Embracing these things even more could cause serious harm.


EDIT: Well i read the previous statement, I've met some cool pot heads to be honest. But we do need to legalize this stuff because it could help end a recession possibly. So many new buyers for a taxed drug. It would shut a whole lot of people up as long as you put a restriction on it all would be good. Non smokers would be happy as long as the stuff is in a certain part of town etc.

[Major Banter]

Being an A2 level biologist I know quite a bit about synapses and neurotransmitters. I simply don't think it's a good idea to play with that stuff.

Do be aware that I don't touch coffee because I hate the taste. That's all. It's a harmless stimulant. Biased, I know, but I haven't seen any ill effects from 2000 years of it.

On the other hand I think inhaling smoke, and the chems in tobacco and pot are, well, not consumables. I'll steer clear cheers. Go right ahead, I won't preach against anyone doing what they like to do, but I'd prefer not to be a pariah.

[Gary]

Having seen what marijuana does to people I'm considerably put off. Anything addictive or alters your brain chemistry is in my opinion, hazardous and affects my abilities, cognition and stability; stuff I pride myself on having and perfecting.
[...]

This. I completely agree with you.

Also, I am highly against tobacco for health and social reasons. I know quite a few people that smoke, some have longer then others. It causes lung cancer and other health problems(was the majority cause of my grandmother's death) and when someone smokes long enough, they began to emit this horrid odor(causing me to avoid them). So it's basically financially expensive lung cancer that also makes you smell.

[theCommie]

So I just finished reading through the thread.

Although I myself don't have anything to add (as the spectrum of views has been more than adequately covered), I feel a profound need to express the following: this is, hands down, one of the most mature discussions I have ever read the Internet. Sadly, this exposes just how much of a childish tantrum political debate is in comparison.

So, for whatever praise from a stranger is worth, you guys should pat yourselves on the back.

[Hollow]

So I just finished reading through the thread.

Although I myself don't have anything to add (as the spectrum of views has been more than adequately covered), I feel a profound need to express the following: this is, hands down, one of the most mature discussions I have ever read the Internet. Sadly, this exposes just how much of a childish tantrum political debate is in comparison.

So, for whatever praise from a stranger is worth, you guys should pat yourselves on the back.

Woah, that's awesome to hear you feel that way on the subject! I'm glad I brought it up and have enjoyed reading the different lifestyles and experiences and personal opinions on the topic myself, i honestly didnt expect the thread to grow into a discussion this big

Edit:

@Hemuuuli

Well, it really depends on what side of it you are shown. The majority of people in the UK, probably do drink responsibly..but the papers and news like to highlight fears of binge-drinking amongst young people.
And even though this can probably be seen as scare-mongering...it has got worse...I have noticed more adverts on TV by the government and health related studies. Documentaries on TV regarding the topic etc.

Also i've noticed it amongst the people I know and the city i dwell in. More and more people on facebook post how drunk they were, i've seen more fights, drunken behaviour etc as of late...though most of this never bothers me...it has become a little alarming recently.

It's not just that. People forget about the strain it puts on emergency services, when they are constantly called out to alchohol related incidents: fights, arguments, crashes, accidents.
The ambulance services are wasting their time and resources on people that have self inflicted their condition and shouldn't deserve to get any attention when there are real accidents to attend to, lives to save, incidents that are more important.
The police have to deal with anti social behaviour, break up incidents outside clubs..again waste their resources when a shooting might of occurred or something serious.

The worst of all is the doctors and nurses in hospital. So much stress is put on them to deal with uncaring, uncooperative, rude patients, that probably just need to sleep off their hangover. I happened to be at the hospital at night once when i had Gastroenteritis, and it was hell. One guy was walking around with his jeans round his ankles. another women was being restrained by doctors because she lashed out and triied to hit one of them...someone else soiled themselves further down the ward because they were too drunk to get up/let someone know.

That kind of stuff, i express myself seriously on, because it's unfair on people who need real medical attention and the services that are used to take care of the vast majority of the public.

The last program I did see, funnily enough was Jeremy Kyle's own documentary... though this really wasn't cheesy or stupid like his regular program. they took these two guys about my age, to have some medical tests after filming them on a typical night out. Turns out that drinking lots in one go, is far more damaging than drinking 1 or 2 a night, and they had started to show the symptoms of liver failure.

They then were taking to see a man who's son died from alcohol poisoning. And this kid wasn't an alcoholic, didnt drink much, but after one night typical night of playing a drinking game, he passed away after his body failed to process the toxins in his body and it literally poisoned him to death. They said that any time you have passed out due to drinking is actually an extremely close shave to death, because if your body packs in, it's game over.

But I mean, this outcome only affects the binge drinkers...so I'm not posting this to portray the whole drinking culture haha..i know the majority are smart enough to use their head and drink responsibly. But it made me angry to see how stupid these two guys were...if i can find the clip i'll post it. It was a disgusting amount..about 15/20 times the amount most people who consider 'a lot'
It's just such a waste of a life to do that, they had no jobs, criminal records and only alcohol to have fun and get them into more trouble...what a nightmare lol

[Hemuuuli]

Well, it really depends on what side of it you are shown. The majority of people in the UK, probably do drink responsibly..but the papers and news like to highlight fears of binge-drinking amongst young people.

That is exacly why I asked the situation in UK from someone local. Media/documentaries are only resource here and they have shown that the situation is similiar to our's. It was good reply and thanks for it. You show a major point in there what heavy drinking people don't usually think of: they do not only harm themselfs but other people too. I don't mind any substance using as long as it is safe for others.

I have stopped my friends doing stupid acts when they are drunk such as driving drunk or walking in the middle of the driveway fortunately many of my friends have changed their drining habbits to less harmfull. I gotta say grats for everyone who have done the same.

[MayheM]

I look at things like this and i have the utmost respect for people who have the willpower to do something so bold. When so much of the youth today is all about getting high or drunk it is not an easy task to be straight edge. In fact that is not a term I have heard since the 80's growing up in New York.

As for what Mat_de_b said about enlightenment from doing drugs. I remember one of the first times i got drunk. I was visiting my brother at college. I stopped to tie my shoe and fell behind everyone I was with. So I ran to catch up. I specifically remember thinking I was running faster than I had ever ran before. That's what I thought at least. However I was running in a zig zag because I could not run in a straight line. My point is, the things you experience when you are "altered" are not necessarily what you think they are. What you think is enlightenment, may in fact be just acting stupid.

Anyway, I commend you Hollow. I drink, but not as often as I used to. I have beer in my fridge that has been there for a week. I do not do drugs. As for sex, I am fortunate enough to have a mutual understanding with a female friend.