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This topic is still going strong then eh?

Contary to popular belief, you can get addicted to pretty much anything that causes certain chemical imbalances. So called "psychological addictions" are still based on chemistry as much as the mind.

Ergo, stating that Cannabis (I can't be bothered with constantly checking the spelling of marijuana) is safe, inaddictive and trustworthy is blinkered.

The ridiculous fact is that Cannabis smokers are quick to bite at people who use fact and study to rule against thier habit, stating that the non-user is biased and uninformed; which is completely hypocritical. At least those who aren't pariahs on either side of the argument can at least make fair judgement. The GMC and WHO are just as bad as the hardcore stoners who endless defend a plant.

Frankly, I think that Cannabis is a far less healthy way of releasing neurotransmitters than, say, exercise, constructive efforts, creative processes and enjoyment of life.

And I'd rather spend my hard-earned cash on a nice holiday, a few DVDs or some more climbing gear than a teenth.

zombie@computer wrote:@saxon: the relation you make between schizophrenia and marijuana use is likely reversed; with schizophrenia you are more likely to become addicted to practically anything; including alcohol, drugs and marijuana...

It is true that people who develop mental illnesses tend to develop addictions to drugs / alcohol. It isn't uncommon for one such person to drink 10 cans of beer or smoke more than 20 cigarettes - all in the space of a day.

bekey wrote:Saxon, actually I don't really know either if wine is tasty or not. The first time I tried it, it was awesome, the next time in a few months ... I didn't like it. But I'll still try wine occasionally

There are so many varieties of wine it's hard to keep track. Flavour depends on the Geographical origin, the year grapes were harvested, the House which makes the Wine and lastly whatever the fuck they're selling it as.

Just wanted to say that we are all rotting away anyway, you may as well live a little. I don't see much of a problem with responsible alcohol or marijuana use... cigarettes though...

why not just go all the way and stop eating and drinking "non-substance" liquids too? i would approve of that more than this straight edge hypocrisy.

Truth is, I need a drink or some smoke to relax. People look down on drunkards or stoners. Meanwhile they take their SSRI meth-fluoride based psycho drugs like ritalin or prozac. drinking their fluoride poisoned government issued tap water, taking their contaminated corporate psychopath flu injections, eating their bovine growth hormone meat and drinking their chemical milk. eating out of cans lined with bisphenol A, chomping down mercury containing glucose-fructose syrup and swigging brain damaging bacteria-shit aspartame. Eat some more GMO potatoes, they give the rats in lab studies cancer. Voting away their power to criminal killers, believing in a psychopath control freak system of murder, dehumanisation and enslavement. Rotting away in front of a TV that lulls you to alpha sleep, slowly hypnotising you, a demonic machine made of thousand quid smiling mouths that pretend to be your mates and scientifically targeted propaganda. Depressing awful corporate landscape. That's just the system. Look the population, tan-in-a-can status obsessed brand whores, zombie public whose survival instincts were shot generations ago. Their lives are occupied with bread and circuses, tabloid journalism, trends, the latest and greatest cattle feed known to man - thinking they're the fucking pinnacle of civilisation. Minds occupied by nothing in particular, everything is vague, they can barely remember what happened last week outside of their own lives and mainstream-media menu. Tell those braindead fuckers that the US funded the Nazis in WW2, try it, I dare you. They'll look at you like you dropped in from space, some of them will even get angry and violent. Good luck with that, bro.

This is why I drink. I can't communicate with these people. We have no common ground. I look at them and there's nothing there. The wall is too great, the barriers are too big. We're thinking in different languages.

Sounds like my point of view, polycruncher.

Saxon wrote:

Hellraz0r wrote:this whole "Marijuana causes schizophrenia" is just a 21st century version of 'reefer madness' propaganda. Schizophrenia is something you're born with, you cannot develop it.

There are genetic causes, but most cases of schizophrenia are brought on by environmental causes (stress or drug abuse).
Saying that "pot doesn't cause schizophrenia" is up there with "smoking doesn't cause cancer".

Also lol, "saying pot causes schizophrenia is propaganda" gets bandied about so much it might as well be considered propaganda

Smoking tobacco does cause cancer, smoking marijuana doesn't. It's pretty obvious what you believe in and that's fine, just don't try pouring some of your bullshit on me.

Phott wrote:Sounds like my point of view, polycruncher.

Yeah I agree.

Zombie, that's super bro you've done your hardyards. Have you yourself studied marijuana or are you just using your background and some articles you've seen on the interwebz to put your point forward? Most of these articles seem to be "Does" or "May cause" etc, no definitive terms. I too can get a long list of articles without this "May cause" and other slight but sneaky terms. but honestly? I know how hard it is to talk to people who believe marijuana is the devil and all bad so I won't bother. I'm not saying you think that, and I'm not saying marijuana is some wonder drug, because it isn't, but it's definitely not as bad as the government and all these bullshit studies funded by pharmaceutical and alcohol companies want you to think.

We should get drunk and start a revolution.

Wait... what did any of that (apart from the first sentence) have to do with drug abuse?!

If life seems that bad to you, shouldn't you be readdressing how you live life rather than using escapism to put up with the most appalling conditions?

Saxon wrote:Wait... what did any of that (apart from the first sentence) have to do with drug abuse?!

If life seems that bad to you, shouldn't you be readdressing how you live life rather than using escapism to put up with the most appalling conditions?

It was more addressing aspects of hypocrisy, and my personal motivations rather than a well formed argument against/for drug use. Secondly, you're entirely correct. I should, but when one[code][/code] feels broken and defeated, escapism is an alluring option. I don't hate those for whom the myriad of bread and circuses are their form of escapism, but I do consciously acknowledge the distraction, refraining from self-delusion and denial.

"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face
with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists"- J Edgar Hoover



I'm so off topic.

Hellraz0r wrote:Zombie, that's super bro you've done your hardyards. Have you yourself studied marijuana or are you just using your background and some articles you've seen on the interwebz to put your point forward? Most of these articles seem to be "Does" or "May cause" etc, no definitive terms. I too can get a long list of articles without this "May cause" and other slight but sneaky terms. but honestly? I know how hard it is to talk to people who believe marijuana is the devil and all bad so I won't bother. I'm not saying you think that, and I'm not saying marijuana is some wonder drug, because it isn't

ive not read any of them, you just wanted some articles, i gave them. Its just how friendly i am
Science can hardly ever give definite facts. Any medical study that gives definite answers is bullocks. The best it can say is: we found no human on earth that didn't get x from y. Concluding from that that y cannot be caused by x is a blatant lie. Inded, if you reread my post i never said "theres hard proof that marijuana causes aids cancer and all the bad things in the world."

I wrote:The long term effects of marijuana are unclear, they arent non-existant. Some studies find links to increased incidence of lung cancer, stroke and various (chronic) psychological disorders.

We can conclude some things from even a range of studies that find possible clues for effects. The chance of one study finding something that isn't there is 5% (p). If two studies find something that isn't there (rejecting a hypothesis which is actually true, or vice-versa), the chance of that happening is 5% * 5% = 0.25%. So if more than, say, 5, INDEPENDENT (of each other) studies find clues about adverse health effects linked to marijuana, no matter how small the correlation they find, the chance that all these studies are wrong is astronomical. Also given the fact that EVERYTHING gives cancer (yes, everything you do or do not may just be the cause of that one free radical particle that turned a healthy cell into cancer, if you think about it its scary...not ), i see no other reason to conclude marijuana gives a higher chance of adverse health effects. Whether or not drinking alcohol or smoking tobacco is less dangerous, ill leave up to other to figure out. In terms of the individual, it all comes down to chance anyway.

Hellraz0r wrote:but it's definitely not as bad as the government and all these bullshit studies funded by pharmaceutical and alcohol companies want you to think.

I don't know how the government and pharmaceutical and alcohol companies want you to think. I draw my own conclusions from various sources. I do feel a lot of naïvety about research and the big bad companies that want to take over the world and want you dead so your pension funds go into their pockets. Can't really blame you, thats how 90% of the world thinks, but thats mostly because they have no idea what they are talking about. I've participated in various kinds of (medical) research and about to publish my very first article, I know the inside world. Yes, there are scammers, thats true. But they do not form the majority by far. Articles that are funded by farmaceutical companies are usually rejected, lawsuits emerge when authors hide these facts and still try to publish their articles, damaging their titles and names forever. Reliable journals require authors to send in their raw data, making it even harder to scam. People think twice before doing things like that, as contrary to the average Joe on the street, a high ranking researcher has but one tool: his name. If it sullied, his/her career is over. And thats an expensive thing to lose after many years of study, i can assure you that.

Sentura wrote:why not just go all the way and stop eating and drinking "non-substance" liquids too? i would approve of that more than this straight edge hypocrisy.

Ignorance much?

A comment like that shows you clearly have no knowledge of the straight edge lifestyle. It's three simple guidelines, abstaining from alcohol, illegal drugs and tobacco. I don't need to repeat myself about all the info of it because of explained and thoroughly discussed it in this thread....but you didn't bother to read any of it I guess.

bekey wrote:I don't think anybody of us took a look at any articles, that you call "propaganda". It's just common sense. It might be the safest drug known to men, but it certainly isn't healthy. Not to mention that most things can still be yet undiscovered.

Look I'm not trying to force people like you to smoke marijuana or anything, all we want (those who smoke marijuana) is the people who don't to back off and let us smoke a joint at the end of the day while you have your glass of wine. We know the risks of smoking marijuana and we don't need those who don't know anything about it to look down on us.

It isn't 100% healthy no, but it is not as unhealthy as you think, especially if you vaporize.

Hmm let's take a look at the annual American deaths caused by drugs:

TOBACCO ........................ 400,000
ALCOHOL ........................ 100,000
ALL LEGAL DRUGS .............20,000
ALL ILLEGAL DRUGS ..........15,000
CAFFEINE .........................2,000
ASPIRIN ...........................500
MARIJUANA ...................... 0

Funny that.. and not even ONE person has died from marijuana alone - since well, ever.

Anyway to those who I may of come across as a bit harsh, I didn't mean to. You continue doing what you do, and I'll continue doing what I do.

Do you have a source for those numbers?