Ubisoft WIN

[YokaI]

I just assumed those who create and edit games, are also avid gamers.

S'fair assumption in all honesty.

Depends on the definition of avid gamers. Often times, I find myself playing old games over and over again and rarely delve into the newer games, mostly because they're a bit too flashy these days. I'm not into a lot of new games, things like god of war never really interest me, halo is a bit predictable, new nintendo games emulate the formulas introduced in the super nintendo, etc etc... There was an era of video games in which story was seeping into games quite a bit, and they weren't too "serious", but still held strong meanings. I kind of wish this trend continued, but as it turns out things have been kinda splitting into a lot of minibranches. On one end, you have something completely story based but take themselves too seriously to do something that in most medium context would seem "silly", like final fantasy XIII, on the other hand you have games which are multiplayer and entertaining for a competitive sense but they tend to all blend together to the point where you'd only want to play the best of whatever genre. You can't turn to independent games, since they try to hard to be avant garde to stand out in the sea of games developed by major publishers. Maybe I'm starting to age too quickly, but I'm tending to think all of this change to games has done to the gaming industry that hollywood did to the film indust---

Oh, I'm sorry, I rambled on quite a bit there. Excuse this grandpa, ok? (why do I always feel so old? the only thing that I make up for with that is my democrat political stance. )

[joe_rogers_11155]

I will not read through the huge thread but I will say that after playing AC2 for about 2 weeks, I am unsatisfied with not only the DRM implementation but also the game itself. The DRM constantly fails and kicks me out of the game for no apparent reason, and the game feels strange compared to the original. It still seems to repeat itself a lot and the assassinations I perform end up turning into sword fights way more often than hidden blade kills.

Assassin's Creed 2 has a spectacular world full of beauty and splendor. The storytelling is well-done. But I actually prefer the original Assassin's Creed MORE in terms of gameplay. An assassination in the original was full of stealth and death-defying action. After the kill, the church bells and the harrowing chases to safety were the best parts of the game. Assassin's Creed 2 feels like is was choked of nutrients at the last second and became stunted - it first seems so magnificent and spectacular, but the formula is too predictable after a few hours of gameplay and the assassinations feel staged and same-y...being chased by guards feels so stupid becuase they give up nearly 10 seconds after they lose sight of you - even if you are "notorious". The DRM issue complicates matters worse because I feel like I don't want to play their half-baked game anyways if the software is trying to kick me out periodically.

Assassin's Creed 2 could have been so much more and DRM was only a part of what made it so much less. IMO.

[Psy]

I really want to play Splinter Cell Conviction. If only it wasn't for this shitty DRM...

[coder0xff]

I'm just waiting for someone to DDoS the DRM servers. I would lol so hard.

[Habboi]

I really want to play Splinter Cell Conviction. If only it wasn't for this shitty DRM...

[MayheM]

Off topic, but I was walking down the street last night trying to get a cab after the baseball game I went to and walked past the Ubisoft office. I had no idea they had a location in San Fran. Looked like a pretty cool building...

[RefaelBA]

To be honest this turned out to be a great thread and I've seen some wonderful posts here. Some of you guys have given great examples and POVs about this DRM and general DRM and a handful of other related subjects.

I never denied that it sucks. I never said Ubisoft didn't do this over the buyer's back and caused a lot of pain (and still do). Everything you said about that and all your rants are well placed. However I just said their DRM works in preventing a lot of piracy (if not all of it) and still, six pages later, nobody here made a reasonable claim otherwise.

Ubisoft's WIN stands.

P.S. I think this FAQ is pretty honest, don't you agree?
And when was this moved to Serious Discussion?

[Kremator]

I don't know what a "WIN" is in this case, nobody really "won" anything yet - if we're talking about "WIN" as in "awesome" then Ubi's DRM is far from awesome for customers. If we're talking about Ubisoft "winning" the "war against piracy" then piracy have won many many decades ago - this is just another small victory in what has been a long struggle for both sides. It's like the war on drugs, you never win, you just keep fighting, you win some you lose some - Ubi might've prevented early pirating of its games but their server got DDos-ed and went down a few times and people have experienced issues, not to mention the countless gamers they turned away by utilizing DRM. Pirates didn't lose anything - they never have anything, Ubisoft lost some good chunk of their customer's satisfaction. It's hardly a fair "war" to say the least.

So before we say "WIN" to anyone, pirates or Ubisoft we must first ask what was all the fuss about. Zipfin's links showed a very interesting viewpoint about how piracy is NOT damaging and in some cases beneficial, maybe this isn't true but if it is then this DRM is even more useless.

[BillyDa59]

I really want to play Splinter Cell Conviction. If only it wasn't for this shitty DRM...

It's a good game. Anyone who enjoyed the previous games will like this one. I was really worried about it NOT being a good game, seeing as I'm a massive Splinter Cell fan. I was terrified they were gonna make a shitty, repetitive tech-demo-esque thing out of it, like what they did for the first Assassin's Creed and Far Cry 2. But that's not the case! Things actually get changed up, missions actually vary, and there's no tedious shit.

Good job Ubisoft, you broke a nasty habit you began to fall into! Just try not to get the next SC out in a more timely manner, and you guys will be golden.

[Hollow]

I don't consider this win at all. I've suffered consistently from a wonky internet connection (as a few of you know in chat), even though i live in a major city. It's a giant pain in the arse. I am grateful that Steam can run in offline mode when shit hits the fan, as then I can carry on working/gaming.

This method of DRM is ridiculous, it may be 2010, but many people still do no have a reliant connection, so having to constantly stream a game from their servers every time you play, would consider me a potential customer lost. I travel a lot back and forth to London, and in the downtime on the coach journey, i usually like to play a few games on steam or work on a mod with the music playing. I can access the web with a mobile broadband dongle, but its just for browsing and will occassionally lose signal. How infuriating would that be if all my steam games did that? Or any of my other software for that fact. It's stupid, and I agree with Tay, it's a step back in my opinion.

Rather than trying to prevent piracy, developers should be looking at ways to provide the incentive for customers to purchase it in the first place. Piracy is inevitable, so the focus should be shifted at learning to function alongside it and keep it's activity minimal, rather than trying to brute force the shit out of their products, causing regular customers to have a bad experience with a product.

It's the exact same thing happening with the music industry. All the dinosaur music labels are dying on their ass because they can't function properly in the age of filesharing, and now have gone all crazy with power trying to cut off people by forcing ISP's to provide data on what their customers are downloading. Massive fail. It only encourages people to pirate more.

[YokaI]

Nobody wins with DRM to be honest, it just something that has to be done to make a profit. If you don't want games to make profit, then don't expect them to make new games every year. Nobody should be justifying their pirating. If you are a pirate you are not doing the right thing and purchasing content that other artists / employees have made. I won't say I haven't downloaded things, but I will say that when I can afford something I buy it instead of downloading it.

I think people have the tendency to think they are entitled to free shit. It's the same type of people who shoplift. They could say that they are forced to shoplift because they don't have the money for that expensive purse, or they don't have the money to pay for all that new clothes / jewelry / etc etc. However, it doesn't change the fact that it's wrong, and just like those stores monitor the facility, ubisoft has to monitor who is playing the game and if it's legit. I think it's no different in that regard. So if you are angry about having an authentication check, are you also angry that you are monitored within every store you shop at? Are you also angry that many programs require online authentication (including windows)? Doesn't it also piss you off that every time you are arrested / pulled over by the police, you are being recorded?

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a hindsight when it comes to what it does upon brief disconnection. You shouldn't just lose all of your progress, that's just bad game design. What should take place is that the game should auto save and shut down, give you a notification, and let continue where you left off. Or even give a bit of buffer time, so that if you lose connection for <5 minutes, you get a warning sign and can relog back in. Or even better, upon each load time it could send out an authentication check, which would only need a very partial internet connectivity. Something along those lines, I have no problem against, seeing as my ps3 / xbox is generally always connected to the internet anyway.

[coder0xff]

If you are a pirate you are not doing the right thing and purchasing content that other artists / employees have made.

You say this as if the developers get paid more if you buy the game and don't if you pirate. You aren't purchasing content from artist, you're purchasing a license to play a game from a corporation. En masse, yes it can contribute to prosperity or layoffs, but that is more a reflection of the market than the actions of pirates.

So if you are angry about having an authentication check, are you also angry that you are monitored within every store you shop at? Are you also angry that many programs require online authentication (including windows)? Doesn't it also piss you off that every time you are arrested / pulled over by the police, you are being recorded?

I DO mind being watched where I shop, but I tolerate it because I have to. I will die without food. I can and do choose not to buy AC2. It's a bad analogy anyway. Initial authentication is like going into Sam's Club and showing your member ship card. This DRM is like having to hold your membership card above your head so the cameras can see it at all times, and if you fail to do this at any moment, a trap door opens which places you back in the parking lot, and your cart is emptied. If I payed for a membership for that, I know I would be infuriated. Further, being taped from a cop car every time you're pulled over is a lot different. The system is intended to record the acts of criminals, which is basically how Ubisoft is treating their customers.

[RefaelBA]

Let's make something clear:
By "WIN" I mean that Ubisoft has succeeded in preventing large-scale piracy on their new blockbuster title(s). That's all. It might be an unconvenient system, but bottom line, they achieved their goal. That's what "WIN" stands for. They made it, at least for now and the foreseeable future.

==================================================================================================

We derailed a bit to talking about piracy in general, why it's bad or good, our personal experiences or the DRM servers' downtime. These are perfectly good claims and stories, but they're not contradicting the simple fact, that AC2 was hardly pirated. That's all I wanted to say by "WIN" and I believe I'm right. It's a technical thing, thus sentimental (bad) experiences don't apply. More derailing:

@ Hollow: Your poor experience with this new system does not change the fact that it achieved its goal. I said before that it's a brutal and annoying system, that's true, and I even agree with all of the ranting and long faces. But that does not change the fact the Ubisoft managed to do what they set out to do: prevent illegal copies of the game from being played. At least most of the game, for the crucial launching time and a long timespan afterwards.

@ Yokai: I totally agree. People got used to getting stuff for free and it's kind of messed up. However I do believe there are real benefits in this situation. For example, how many of the amateur modelers or those who are currently learning how to create textures in Photoshop could really afford the high costs of the software? I'm using some insanely expensive software and I know that most people wouldn't be able to buy a liscence for using at home.
So what's good about that you might be asking? The good thing is that people learn how to use these programs and then when they're good enough, they can work with these programs proffessionally, either for studios or as freelancer, and eventually they'll broaden the software's user base. I don't want to type too much so just give it some thought and try to understand why this is a good thing- most of the money for professional programs comes from corporates and not individuals.

@ CREAMATOR: Look above (over the bar) to see what I mean by "WIN". I liked your comparison to fighting drugs, it makes some sense, though I believe that Ubi's DRM is just a first step into the era of uncrackable games. That's the real victory here. Whether people will use game services like OnLive or an improved DRM of this kind will show up - in the end, piracy will become rare. It's just like it's very hard to "pirate" your cellular bills - it's a service that runs on counters and it's very hard to cheat, because it's a service that's always connected to the company. See what I mean there?

@ Zipfinator: Those links make for a good read. I've heard of this approach before but the thing is, that it's mostly an idea, and the people who support it barely have any data to rely on. I skimmed on most of what you sent (perhaps I've missed something) and I didn't run into any numerical proof that support the claims. And I guess we won't run into real numbers, because nobody really knows the real numbers in piracy, not even the publishers. And WE don't really know the number of sold copies, most of the time. So until someone makes a real research out of this, it's pretty much invalid.

@ Supervillain: You're talking about the micro-transaction model. It can't work on everything, and I believe it's not suited for a real AAA single player game. It will be like asking people to pay for watching the next scene in a movie. A single player campaign should be a pretty continuous experience, and this model won't work in this case, imo.

@ Dionysos: I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Dionysos]

Nobody wins with DRM to be honest, it just something that has to be done to make a profit.

Factually wrong, but apparently inconveniently so. There are plenty of examples of games and developers eschewing DRM and still making a profit which allows them to make more games.

If you don't want games to make profit, then don't expect them to make new games every year. Nobody should be justifying their pirating. If you are a pirate you are not doing the right thing and purchasing content that other artists / employees have made. ...

Painting things black and white, either right OR wrong, is simply fallacious, things are far from that easy. A perfect example is the one Rafael gives above about insanely expensive professional software. Piracy CAN yield positive effects on society (there are even studies that show this, apart from the obvious logic behind it), and it's not inherently unethical. Stop comparing copying things to stealing physical objects.

We are on the brink of the real digital evolution, where old concepts of ownership of information are forced to change and culture is expanding at new rates because of it. Games aren't dying, because people still support what they like (case in point: Valve). Same with music and art. Some cling to the concepts of an artificial market practice that was only possible due to the "primitive" nature of information technology in previous decades. The human trade of sharing information which was already then apparent but limited due to the level of technology is able to freely unfold itself today, much to the dismay of those who have gotten used to disproportionate profits and market power.

Digital sharing can be exploited by developers/artists, and games do well "in spite" of it. That isn't opinion, that is precedented fact.

Rafael I apologize for further derailment of your thread but this subject is just too interesting to debate And btw I don't get what you mean by pirating cellular bills, as pirating that would just give you some numbers?

EDIT: Yeah, we will see, but we're already seeing now since piracy is pretty much a fact already.

[RefaelBA]

Rafael I apologize for further derailment of your thread but this subject is just too interesting to debate And btw I don't get what you mean by pirating cellular bills, as pirating that would just give you some numbers?

EDIT: Yeah, we will see, but we're already seeing now since piracy is pretty much a fact already.

This is truely an interesting subject, as long as we also keep the original idea in the thread, there's no reason why can't talk about related things as well... To your question: by "pirating cellular bills" I meant that instead of paying your bills you'll get away with it for free. Being subscribed to a service mostly makes sure that abill is being charged from somebody, like in having a cell phone. This is an example of a service, and this is the future, imo, of how games will be offered to us (ie OnLive. I bet you know what OnLive is but look it up if you don't).

And surely piracy was extremely hard to fight to so far. But if this kind of DRM takes off, it will be different in the future, and if games will be offered as a service, there will be hardly any piracy at all. The way I see it, either way the future holds a definite elimitation of the grand-scale piracy we know today, at least in gaming.

And about that Crack you mentioned, I don't know about it really, but even if does offer the COMPLETE game without the bugs and glitches they so far had, even then it would have taken a very long time to release a "proper" pirated edition of the game. I believe that the Ubi saw this in advance and that they're still happy that they could hold the gates and make money out of real purchaces for the month or two that it took to hack the game (and again, can you confirm this cracked version is a perfect release and not a half baked one like all those that came before it?)