Dr. Rand Paul

[MayheM]

The reason I did not post links to sites to back my thoughts is mainly because I was stating how I view the topics people question in Rand Paul. The abortion thing, sure it sucks the a woman was raped, and I think there should be harsher penalties for those convicted of rape. But since I feel abortion is murder I am not in favor of it as a solution to any problem. But like I said I can understand someone wanting to terminate a pregnancy in those situations however my beliefs see it as an immoral choice. No gymnastics, just stating my view.

As for the SAT score chart you posted, it shows the reading scores have dropped off, and the math scores have increased a little but only after a sharp falloff. But then again look at the scores on the left side of the chart. Those numbers show Math increased by a whopping 20 points and reading is down just about 5 points. So I fail to see how that could not be said it is flat lined. an average of 15 points better is abysmal compared to the amount of money spent on education every year.

Back to the Civil Rights point, would I vote for the civil rights law? I don't know I did not read it. I may have but without reading it I can not say. I can say this, I believe all men and women are created equal. I think the playing field should be as such. I do not think anyone should be given a leg up because of his or her race, sex, or any other category people are divided into these days. I see us all as one people. So if the law said that, then it would be an overwhelming yes in my book. However if the law said that one group would be compensated for years of stupidity, IE reparations or anything like that. I would put forth a law that was more along the lines of my ideas.

But to be honest you are taking the word of NPR and MSNBC, who are as liberal as they get. So they are going to spout out the anti tea-party, and republican BS all day long.

To comment on one point Zabiela made.

Personally, I see a big difference between questioning your government, and showing up to a "tea party" to listen to Sarah Palin chant "drill baby drill".

The tea party is so much more than that. I find it sickening the way people demonize them. You may not agree with them, and that is totally fine, but show some freaking respect for other peoples views. We went through 8 years of seeing this kind of thing.





Now that the shoe is on the other foot the left does not seem to like it very much. People pretested for 8 years against Bush, but now the people who protest Obama are being bashed and called terrorists. I have seen images of a Bush Doll on a noose, and signs reading "Kill Bush". but those people where not labeled by the left as crazy because the left agreed with what they where saying. But if someone questions Obama, they are instantly racist. It is a double standard and it is a bunch of BS.

The fact of the matter is, we need to focus on the things we agree on rather than on the things we disagree on. If we look at the main things in our lives we all agree on most levels. The political parties pit people against each other and they themselves then go out to dinner and socialize together. they call attention to the other party and then turn around and say people in the other party are close friends. It is a bunch of BS. I for one respect the views of others. I may not agree but your beliefs are your own.

[Simpletool]

I'll take whatever advice you offer when you [more offensive language that has nothing to do with the validity of my advice]

vs.

I will try to take a more nuanced approached toward his views on abortion. It was unfair of me to attack him that way.

I suppose I'm satisfied anyway.

If you had a penchant for detail you might grasp not-so-subtle concepts. I gave reconsideration to...

I for one can understand abortion in those cases you listed above, however I do not necessarily condone it.

...because I didn't take a nuanced approach in my first reading. I have a better understanding of his feelings towards his beliefs of abortion as an immoral option vs the sympathy he feels for a woman placed in a situation where she chooses to terminate a rape induced pregnancy. With that said I will remain critical of his contradicting perspectives on abortion rights.

I could spend all day discussing this topic, but at this point I think I've exhausted enough time on the subject.

Which is near the problem I'm trying to address. Having no respect for someones view is fine. Sometimes peoples stupidity pisses me off too. But don't disrespect the person. There is a lot in how you say things.

I lost all tolerance I had long ago for people like yourself who feel entitled to espouse garbage without consequence; people who boldly assume their own unsubstantiated beliefs require equal consideration as fact.

You wallow in a miasma of ignorance openly displayed with a sense of pride, and in the face of criticism crying foul in hopes of dredging some fragment of sympathy.

[MayheM]

Just to add a little to back my beliefs on abortion rights, and I know it is a little off topic, but her goes...

If a woman is murdered while she is pregnant the accused party will be charged with two counts of murder. One for the woman and one for the baby. Yet if a woman goes in and terminates the pregnancy it is not considered murder. That is a far bigger contradiction than my view on abortion. That in and of itself defies logic.

As for losing tolerance for people who "feel entitled to espouse garbage...". Get over yourself man. People ARE entitled to say what they want to say and believe what they want to believe. I work at a school in California, so I am in a very liberal state and I work in a very liberal environment, however I am able to have civil discussions with the people I work with about politics and what not without causing issue. The reason fro this is because I respect different opinions. I do not try and sway people to think my way, I simply voice my ideas and listen to theirs, both doing so respectfully.

[Zabiela]

Now that the shoe is on the other foot the left does not seem to like it very much. People pretested for 8 years against Bush, but now the people who protest Obama are being bashed and called terrorists. I have seen images of a Bush Doll on a noose, and signs reading "Kill Bush". but those people where not labeled by the left as crazy because the left agreed with what they where saying. But if someone questions Obama, they are instantly racist. It is a double standard and it is a bunch of BS.

Maybe its me, but I hadn't noticed any tea-party bashing other than some silly observations.

They've been called terrorists? Thats (stupid) news to me.

"But if someone questions Obama, they are instantly racist."
That however, I keep hearing from tea-party-ers, this claim of being accused of racism. I have yet to hear someone actually be accused of being racist for questioning Obama's administration.
I question Obama myself, and I voted for him. That makes me (instantly) racist according to who? I haven't met these people yet.




So am I right, or am I ignorant and the liberals really are demonizing the "tea party".

The way I see it, most of the country is questioning and being alarmed at Obama's actions. The tea party protests just look silly amidst it all.

You wallow in a miasma of ignorance openly displayed with a sense of pride, and in the face of criticism crying foul in hopes of dredging some fragment of sympathy.

Lol. Good luck getting a point across with that attitude.

[MayheM]

This pretty much sums it up...

[Zabiela]

I see. Im glad I don't watch national news channels.

But still- its not a big problem, is it? Is it really an indication of a fundamental divide? Clearly people who actually end up with that argument... have NO argument, so they're stupid, ignore 'em.

I've been called anti-american (to some, worse than racism) and a terrorist for showing support for the Iraqi people and opposing the war. Its sort of an inevitability that some people will jump to whatever accusation is the most juicy sounding, and "racist" is certainly juicy sounding.

Its great how video editing can make it look like an entire party has one point of view, ah television.

[NBRXXN]

I see. Im glad I don't watch national news channels.

But still- its not a big problem, is it? Is it really an indication of a fundamental divide? Clearly people who actually end up with that argument... have NO argument, so they're stupid, ignore 'em.

I've been called anti-american (to some, worse than racism) and a terrorist for showing support for the Iraqi people and opposing the war. Its sort of an inevitability that some people will jump to whatever accusation is the most juicy sounding, and "racist" is certainly juicy sounding.

Its great how video editing can make it look like an entire party has one point of view, ah television.

I don't even have a TV!

And as for the abortion issue, that is a very complicated moral issue and no single view has the moral "high ground", every view has moral failings and moral advantages.
On a personal note I'm not really sure what I think about abortion.

[Gradius]

Is anyone really implying that every single teapartier is a crazy nutjob? I doubt it.
You guys really are letting yourself get represented as the party of idiots and crazy people though. You guys want to speak out but it seems no one can hear you over the vocal (and retarded) minority.

[MayheM]

NBRXXN that is a good point, when you consider my view of immoral is the termination of an unborn child while someone else feels it is immoral to force a woman to have a child conserved from rape. To be honest though, I would say that is a small percentage of cases since they have a drug called the morning after pill which is given to woman who have been raped. Sadly those woman are often too embarrassed to go to the police afterwards. I wish that was not the case.

I often thing of the book "the Scarlet Letter" when I think of rape. For no other reason that I wish we could permanently mark Rapists. I am talking about branding the letter R on their forehead, or some kind of symbol which is universally known in all countries. So if this asshole comes need a woman, said woman will have plenty of warning.

Gradius, Jeannine Gerafelo, stated in an interview that they are all racist rednecks. Kieth Oberman does the same, as does John Stewart. I agree there are some nut jobs out there, but the far left media reports on those people and makes claims that all tea party members are like that. Which is why that is the only voice heard. The point is there are nuts on both sides. They are the ones who break this country apart. The people in the middle, who can civilly disagree and work together are the ones that can get stuff done. So "F" the fringe on both sides.

[coder0xff]

I often thing of the book "the Scarlet Letter" when I think of rape. For no other reason that I wish we could permanently mark Rapists.

You and I differ there. I think any adult who knowingly and willingly commits an unprovoked personal crime (doesn't have to be sexual) against a fellow human should be put to death.

[MayheM]

Actually we don't. I would go for that too... people like that are a drain on society and do nothing but hurt others. Eliminate them and the world is a better place...

[Zabiela]

So if this asshole comes need a woman, said woman will have plenty of warning.

From another perspective, the only way a convicted rapist will ever get laid that way is by raping again.

Scarlet letters don't fix anything, they just extend problems really.

[Dionysos]

The question is whether to consider the person having been brainwashed/"raised". I'm not defending criminals, but one of the dangers I see in capital punishment is that it's easy to say "he got what he deserved, problem solved", thereby forgetting or even dismissing the underlying (social) causes of the symptom that is a murderous/violent society.

[coder0xff]

The question is whether to consider the person having been brainwashed/"raised". I'm not defending criminals, but one of the dangers I see in capital punishment is that it's easy to say "he got what he deserved, problem solved", thereby forgetting or even dismissing the underlying (social) causes of the symptom that is a murderous/violent society.

In my mind, capital punishment isn't about what the criminal deserves, it's about removing them from society. While I appreciate that some people have lots of motivation to commit crime, once you decide to cross the line and become malicious towards individuals for self gain, you're no longer welcome. It takes a certain kind of person to be a criminal, and while their motivating circumstances may bring out the worst in them, who they are is still part of the problem.

[Dionysos]

In my mind, capital punishment isn't about what the criminal deserves, it's about removing them from society. While I appreciate that some people have lots of motivation to commit crime, once you decide to cross the line and become malicious towards individuals for self gain, you're no longer welcome. It takes a certain kind of person to be a criminal, and while their motivating circumstances may bring out the worst in them, who they are is still part of the problem.

I completely agree. But I think society and the environment a person is shaped by can also turn someone into a "killer". I don't think there are as many "genetically pre-disposed" ("insane") criminals as there are criminals. So I agree about certain actions justifying the negation of the right to be part of a society, but strictly in that sense, not over looking the fact that you are treating symptoms rather than a cause. It is my view that pretty much anyone (of course there are always exceptions) can end up fucked up by a hellish "upraising" (and I've heard about some pretty sick shit due to friends/family working in psychiatry).