Arizona's Immigration Law...

[MayheM]

So there has been a lot of talk lately about people being up in arms over the new law in Arizona. You know the one that makes being in this country illegally... Illegal. I have read the law, and spoken to a lot of people about it. Most of those who oppose the law have not read it, or at least that's what I have noticed. I mean even Attorney General Eric Holder past judgment on the law saying it was wrong yet when asked if he had read it he said "I have not had time to read it". He went on to say he had not even been briefed on the law. So without knowing anything about it he said it was wrong. The Director of Homeland Security Janet Napalitano had a similar story when asked about the bill. She never read it and she was once the Governor of Arizona. President Obama, same thing, didn't read it.. I mean, people say that it will bring about racial profiling, however it flat out states in the law that if an officer abuses the law they themselves will be prosecuted.

So my question you you all is have you read it? Do you agree with it? Do you disagree with it? and Why?

I for one am all for people coming to this country. I just believe people should do it legally. The President of Mexico bashed the law, yet his country has far more harsh laws in place. In fact most countries have stronger enforcement of immigration laws. I have heard there are arguments in France about legal immigration, let alone illegal. I just feel anyone who truly wants to be in this country to better themselves should be willing to do what they have to do legally to establish themselves as citizens.

What say you?

[NBRXXN]

Allowing officers to check the papers of anyone just because they 'look' illeagel is deffinetly racial profiling.

[city14]

I liked the idea of the law, and it had its place in Arizona where there are increased crime rates, kidnappings, etc... along the border. But like NBRXXN says, it is going to be used for racial profiling. They aren't going to pull over the white guy and ask for proof of citizenship. I like the idea of the law, but not way it could be implemented.

I think it would be less challenged if legislators just made it harder for an illegal to live in the US. There are already rules regarding employment, which could be made stricter. Perhaps if you catch an illegal there is no US jail time, just immediate deportation. I'm sure there is more that could be said.

[Simpletool]

So there has been a lot of talk lately about people being up in arms over the new law in Arizona. You know the one that makes being in this country illegally... Illegal.

There already exist laws in place for illegal immigration with ICE being the primary enforcement body.

It amazes me that someone like yourself who romanticizes the constitution so much would favor a law that clearly goes against the 4th amendment.

I just feel anyone who truly wants to be in this country to better themselves should be willing to do what they have to do legally to establish themselves as citizens.

Do you not realize how difficult it is to immigrate legally to the U.S.? Most people who wish to become a U.S. citizen don't have the resources to do it legally. There definitely needs to be immigration reform, but intimidating and ostracizing the disadvantage isn't the solution.

http://reason.com/assets/db/07cf533ddb1 ... 2ef5ad.jpg

[NBRXXN]

So my question you you all is have you read it?

My question is have YOU read it?

[coder0xff]

I'm for it (I live in AZ not far from the border, and my neighborhood reflects it). I have not read it. Yes it is racial profiling. Cry some more. When you consider what we are working against I think loss of civil liberties is acceptable. But seriously, you carry your ID in your wallet (which you should be doing if you're an immigrant anyway), if you get stopped, flash it - that simple. I had to do this several times a day working inside a military post. Hell some civilian workers even had their ID in a transparent pouch they wore like a necklace.

Drastic times call for drastic measures. This law is our last resort.

[Simpletool]

I'm for it (I live in AZ not far from the border, and my neighborhood reflects it). I have not read it. Yes it is racial profiling. Cry some more. When you consider what we are working against I think loss of civil liberties is acceptable. But seriously, you carry your ID in your wallet (which you should be doing if you're an immigrant anyway), if you get stopped, flash it - that simple. I had to do this several times a day working inside a military post. Hell some civilian workers even had their ID in a transparent pouch they wore like a necklace.

Drastic times call for drastic measures. This law is our last resort.

So you admit to supporting legislation that you haven't read and infringes on civil liberties for some nebulous sense of security.

It's quite easy to justify racial profiling when you don't have to worry about the consequences isn't it?

[coder0xff]

I don't fight any legislation. I don't vote. I'm rather anti-political; I stick to what I'm good at. I wish more people would do the same.

The purpose isn't to create a false sense of security - the purpose is to catch criminals. I don't feel directly threatened by illegal immigrants (otherwise I wouldn't live here). What airlines do is more along the lines of your description.

And you're right. It does make it easy to justify it. You don't think I considered that before I posted? But like I said - I've been in situations where I was constantly required to verify that my presence was authorized, and tolerating it is worth while when you consider what you get in exchange for it: the right to earn a living.

[Unstoppable Florence]

Coder, you strike me as the kind of guy who'd leave the window open on a freezing day because you are happy with the cold - room-mates be damned.

A lot of the other guys in this thread are outraged at what they feel is a decline in civil rights: something that usually leads to yet more declines in civil rights. In a democratic society, people stop changes that they don't like by being political. If people listened to your suggestion of not doing that very thing, that free nation of America would have become a lot less free a long time ago. It's cool that you don't want to concern yourself with politics, but it's a bit silly to say that in a thread about politics.

As for the bill, of course I haven't read it (UK here), but it does look like it's following that old route of 'more security, less freedom' which is always the easy route for those at the top to take, but the hardest road for those lower down to be dragged along. The immigration problem could probably be solved with different, more fair and intelligent solutions anyway.

[coder0xff]

That's what a lot of people aren't realizing about this law, is that it's a response to the failure of every other attempt. This is an act of desperation. We even asked for help from the fed and received the cold shoulder. They want to complain about it in Washington, but where were they when we asked them for guidance before?

[MayheM]

Allowing officers to check the papers of anyone just because they 'look' illeagel is deffinetly racial profiling.

So you have not read the law then... They have to be stopped for some kind of illegal act. (I.E. Running a red light, speeding, Etc...) In those cases it is normal to ask for a license. It also happens to be illegal for someone who is not a citizen to go anywhere in the country without documentation. Much like we need to have our Passport in other nations. Obama used the case of someone buying ice cream and getting carted off and asked for their papers. This law would actually prosecute the officer who did that. a person wrongfully accused will also be awarded no less than $1000 but no more than $5000 a day for every day they are wrongfully held. So read the bill and stop just listening to the left wing media who spoke out against it before even reading the law. I for one have, yes I have read the bill.

A good point to make for those who say it violated civil rights. What about the people who are abused while being smuggled over the boarders? Or the people who get jobs where companies pay them shit wages because they are illegal and have no way of stopping it? Illegal aliens are honestly modern day slavery. What is worse is politicians do not look at it like that. Many of those who oppose this in Washington do not give a rats ass about the rights of those people. The Republicans who are up in arms want their cheap labor, and the Democrats want to expand their voter base. Back in the 80's Reagan gave a ton of illegals amnesty in the hopes to essentially buy votes. Those who are championing the movement against this law in Washington are doing the same thing. It is a bunch of political BS. The fact of the matter is, something needed to be done. I live in a city where they flat out say they are a Sanctuary City. If you are arrested and found to be illegal in San Francisco, they do not deport you or report you. It is things like that which made this law happen. This law basically enforces the federal laws which are in place. That is my biggest gripe with people who oppose this law. I head one person ask another. "Do you feel someone in this country illegally should be deported?" The response was... "Well if they break the law do something illegal then yes, but not for just being in this country." Can you see what is wrong with that answer? Look at the question, and then the answer again... See it? by being in this country illegally they ARE BREAKING THE LAW!

Like I said I am all for immigration. This country is the melting pot of the world. We are built upon people from all over the world. But allowing people to just walk in and have open boarders cheapens what we are. When you become a citizen you stop being someone from wherever and you become an American.

You can also look at it like this. If you go to another country, what do you do? Do you just up and grab a plain ticket, or just drive across the border at any point. Or do you grab your passport and go across a border legally? Why is it so hard for people to see that is is just showing respect for the sovereignty of another nation to cross over the border legally. Why is it so wrong to ask people to do the same when they come into our country? Illegal immigration is a BIG problem and has been for a long time. This law was a product of inaction by Washington... There is no other way to put it.

[Sathor]

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Is this the Law?

People who are in the country illegaly and don't seek sanctuary should be deported. I don't know the exact situation in the USA and don't care to look it up, but as far Germany is concerned, it is fairly easy to be acknowledged to be politically prosecuted or other stuff.
As far as I know, recently a German couple has been granted political asylum in the USA, because they wanted to teach their kids at home (all this Bible-is-all-you-will-ever-need nonsense), which is not allowed in Germany (a matter open to discussion, but not in this topic).

A federal law must be executed, so from my lecture I can't see too many problems.

Of course, racism WILL arise from it. But nothing that doesn't already exist.
Another German example: kids from immigrants background (2nd or 3rd generation) with turkish facial features (or whatever country they come from) are a LOT more likely to be controlled by the police. For example if they drive expensive cars.

[Simpletool]

That's what a lot of people aren't realizing about this law, is that it's a response to the failure of every other attempt. This is an act of desperation. We even asked for help from the fed and received the cold shoulder. They want to complain about it in Washington, but where were they when we asked them for guidance before?

You're cutting off the nose to spite the face...

Do you understand that this law violates the Sumpremacy Clause with current federal immigration laws, and violates your rights against unreasonable search and seizures.

The passing of this bill has also sparked Texas and Oklahoma to push similar bills including a bill by Oklahoma that violates citizenship by birth.

[coder0xff]

That's what a lot of people aren't realizing about this law, is that it's a response to the failure of every other attempt. This is an act of desperation. We even asked for help from the fed and received the cold shoulder. They want to complain about it in Washington, but where were they when we asked them for guidance before?

You're cutting off the nose to spite the face...

You're claiming that this law will hurt Arizona more than it hurts illegal immigration. First, I highly doubt that. Second, this is a trial run. This law is nothing that can't be repealed should it be found destructive. Third, unless you you live here (which you haven't stated that you do) then I think you're hardly in a position to decide that this is some kind of over reaction.

Unreasonable search and seizure? By checking for identification?

As for the rest, I'm not really concerned with that. (returns to anti-political corner)

Coder, you strike me as the kind of guy who'd leave the window open on a freezing day because you are happy with the cold - room-mates be damned.

Yeah, probably. But unlike America at large, I tend not to meddle in other peoples business, especially when they have the means (democracy) to handle their own problems.

[Kremator]

I'm just going to throw in a semi-related issue here for you guys - I am an international student and holds an F-1 VISA which means I'm not a citizen and will be deported IF I DROP ONE CLASS. I am required to maintain at least four classes (12 units) at all times or risk losing my VISA status.

Now I've been in the States for 3 years now, so say I want to become a citizen.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18552_so ... -hell.html

I will let this article illustrate the process for you since that's exactly what I am experiencing - I have spent a ridiculous sum of money on getting green cards with no resolution in sight.

My two cents.