Arizona's Immigration Law...

[no00dylan]

I'm personally against any law that could potentially take Kremator out of the US.

[Simpletool]

Yeah, probably. But unlike America at large, I tend not to meddle in other peoples business, especially when they have the means (democracy) to handle their own problems.

You've involved yourself in a political discussion and thrown your support behind new legislation, but when criticism is directed at your views you attempt to deflect it by claiming to be politically apathetic. You dodge in and out of a discussion when it's most convenient for your views. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

You're claiming that this law will hurt Arizona more than it hurts illegal immigration. First, I highly doubt that.

The new law is already taking effect on Arizona's economy and undermining the trust in it's police force.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... t=1&f=1006
http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/boyco ... /19457952/
http://www.theatlantic.com/food/archive ... uce/56534/
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/ ... 1B_workers
http://www.petergreenberg.com/2010/04/2 ... t-tourism/
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/201 ... immig.html
http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/ ... ensus.html
http://trueslant.com/erikkain/2010/04/2 ... ver-could/

[MayheM]

I'm personally against any law that could potentially take Kremator out of the US.

Considering he is a student, he is likely here legally. So that would be highly unlikely. But like he said, it is a bitch to become a citizen and take a lot of time. There is no doubt it could be made easier and should for that matter be made easier to become a citizen. It is not about telling people they can not be citizens. It is a matter of telling people, if you want to come to this country please come through the front door so we know who is in the country. A good example of this is the recent Time Square Attempted attack. The guy who got caught was found so quickly because his records were on file. He was here legally and was a citizen. There is no reason what so ever for people to come to the country in any other way than the front door and through legal means.

I personally think we should have an Ellis Island kind of thing in different areas of the country. Let it be known you can come in, we just want to know you are here. There is, in my opinion, nothing wrong with that idea.

[coder0xff]

You dodge in and out of a discussion when it's most convenient for your views. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

The only part I chose not to address was laws being created in other states. Forgive me if I don't follow you into every tangent.

As for the articles, I'll take your word for it that they indicate the problems you mentioned. But I'm also inclined to be skeptical towards the articles, and the fact they are reporting the effects of a law after it's been in place for only a very short time. Let's give it a chance.

[Simpletool]

The only part I chose not to address was laws being created in other states. Forgive me if I don't follow you into every tangent.

I came into the thread and addressed the issues you yourself posted. What tangent have I gone on?

[coder0xff]

What tangent have I gone on?

Thread title: Arizona's Immigration Law
Your tangent: Texas and Oklahoma

Seriously? If you'd like to continue attacking me, please write me a PM.

[Simpletool]

Third, unless you you live here (which you haven't stated that you do) then I think you're hardly in a position to decide that this is some kind of over reaction.

Explain to me the first hand experience living as a resident of Arizona that gives your views precedence over anyone else's regarding illegal immigration.

I've personally spent a number of years living in San Diego and Albuquerque, as well as having many friends who are residents of Texas living within miles of the Mexico border. However my own anecdotes aren't strong enough to justify stripping others of their basic civil rights.

[Simpletool]

What tangent have I gone on?

Thread title: Arizona's Immigration Law
Your tangent: Texas and Oklahoma

Seriously? If you'd like to continue attacking me, please write me a PM.

Immigration laws being passed by Texas and Oklahoma are closely tied with the debate surrounding Arizona's own law. The recent passing of the immigration bill has provided these two other states with the fuel to pass their own legislation that further infringes on constitutional amendments. It's part of the slippery slope argument that these laws lead to a decline in everyone's civil rights.

If you can't bear having your views criticized in public then you shouldn't participate in the debate. I'm not going to PM because I have no need to. If you can't logically support your views I'm going to criticize them for everyone to witness.

[NBRXXN]

The computer ads are getting smarter... after looking at this forum and posting once this is now what my screen looks like;

Note the immigration ad, scary......
(sorry about the tangent)

[Dr. Delta]

Damn foreigners.

[Major Banter]

GET THE FUCK OUTTA MAH COUNTRY FHAGG.

[coder0xff]

Immigration laws being passed by Texas and Oklahoma are closely tied with the debate surrounding Arizona's own law. The recent passing of the immigration bill has provided these two other states with the fuel to pass their own legislation that further infringes on constitutional amendments. It's part of the slippery slope argument that these laws lead to a decline in everyone's civil rights.

If you can't bear having your views criticized in public then you shouldn't participate in the debate. I'm not going to PM because I have no need to. If you can't logically support your views I'm going to criticize them for everyone to witness.

OK, then. You say that Texas' and Oklahoma's laws are closely tied. Frankly, I don't care. You can justify any topic into being related. It doesn't change the fact that Texas and Oklahoma aren't Arizona. Therefore, I chose not to debate them. I don't want to study them, and so I wont argue about them. Do you understand? (Besides that, if there is a problem with these laws, they should be addressed by that state, not Arizona. Should we back peddle because other states make questionable laws, and they should be discussed in threads about them.)

The reason I suggest you PMing me is because you aren't attacking my arguments right now.

My view is that we should give the law a try, and people should stop being so critical of it. You think the local government didn't consider the implications when they wrote the law? You think they just forgot about the rights of people? Stop treating the law like it's some gross neglect of reason, and realize that this is a carefully thought out reaction to a difficult situation.

[Simpletool]

My view is that we should give the law a try, and people should stop being so critical of it. You think the local government didn't consider the implications when they wrote the law? You think they just forgot about the rights of people? Stop treating the law like it's some gross neglect of reason, and realize that this is a carefully thought out reaction to a difficult situation.

You think they just forgot about the rights of people?

Yes

You think the local government didn't consider the implications when they wrote the law?

Yes



The law already ran its test run in Oklahoma back in 2007. They learned a very painful lesson from it.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opi ... m-Oklahoma

[Simpletool]

A good example of this is the recent Time Square Attempted attack. The guy who got caught was found so quickly because his records were on file.

His identity was discovered because he left the keys to his apartment and getaway car in the SUV he used to plant the explosives, he also left behind the prepaid phone used to call a fireworks store. His immigration status did little to help the investigation when compared to his own fantastic incompetence.

The case you're trying to make with the attempted bombing in Times Square is quickly deflated by the actual events and succeeding investigation.

[MayheM]

A good example of this is the recent Time Square Attempted attack. The guy who got caught was found so quickly because his records were on file.

His identity was discovered because he left the keys to his apartment and getaway car in the SUV he used to plant the explosives, he also left behind the prepaid phone used to call a fireworks store. His immigration status did little to help the investigation when compared to his own fantastic incompetence.

The case you're trying to make with the attempted bombing in Times Square is quickly deflated by the actual events and succeeding investigation.

If he was hear illegally it would have made tracking him down far more difficult. There is no question in my mind that if he came to the country illegally they would have had a harder time finding him because of the simple fact that finding someone the country knows is actually in the country is far easier than finding someone who we are unaware of. That is simple logic. Either way, it does not take away from the fact that it is a matter of respect to come in legally. Other countries do not tolerate people coming into their countries illegally. Plus like I have stated I am not opposed to people coming here, I just want them to let us know they are here. There is not a single argument anyone can make that would actually justify someone not wanting to let the government know they are here in the country. It is not about closing the borders but rather about identifying who crosses them...