Interlopers.net Forum - Half-Life 2 News & Tutorials

Posted: **Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:14 am**

I don't understand why there are so many of those crappy amateur maps. It seems that people put no effort into their maps and they end up releasing utter shit maps like fy_iceworld. I'm not saying that people should only release top-grade commerical quality professional maps, but make a map to the best of your ability.

But of course, a person shouldn't go out and release an utterly terrible map, if thats the best they can do. If your skill level is making a blocked out room with dev textures and fullbright, then you should not release maps. You should practice until you have a decent skill level, not pro but good enough to be respectable. For instance, I spent around 2 years learning how to use various level design tools until I released my first map; which is how it should be done.

Posted: **Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:55 pm**

Ark11 wrote:I don't understand why there are so many of those crappy amateur maps. It seems that people put no effort into their maps and they end up releasing utter shit maps like fy_iceworld. I'm not saying that people should only release top-grade commerical quality professional maps, but make a map to the best of your ability.

But of course, a person shouldn't go out and release an utterly terrible map, if thats the best they can do. If your skill level is making a blocked out room with dev textures and fullbright, then you should not release maps. You should practice until you have a decent skill level, not pro but good enough to be respectable. For instance, I spent around 2 years learning how to use various level design tools until I released my first map; which is how it should be done.

I am going to stay off topic for a moment...

Shit Map Theory 101
I have somewhat of a sick fascination with shit maps. (BTW the shit map night thing was genius!) Anyways here is my perspective on it.

Many, many people play the valve multi-player games in groups of friends or clans. Someone in these groups gets the idea that “Hey I can make us a map to play!” “And I can even put my name in big blocks in the level somewhere!!” There are enough tutorials out there that someone with zero mapping experience and lack of artistic desire can create a map for their group of friends. Now they can play with their friends on their shitty constructed playground.

What really fascinates me is why some of these shit maps go viral to a point where they are sought out. Aim_texture2 for instance… This is probably the grandfather of the dev texture movement. I think the reason that certain players gravitate towards maps like this is because they are stripped down. If the player is looking to improve their skills with particular weapons or in general, a map like aim_texture2 lets them focus on just that.

Also keep in mind that shit maps can be completed and published in a day or two. For those with very little patience to work on maps or if they want their friends to start playing it right away, one texture nightmares are ideal.
I myself have even made a few shit maps…. the highest quality shit maps mind you! I make them usually as a joke or to try out a concept. But there is some satisfaction to quickly release something and seeing it played. It can be a welcome break from working through an incredibly complex level for months on end.

Posted: **Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:25 pm**

None can beat my series of shit maps from the last night. Just made a box with a prop in it. Rename four times and change the prop four times. Genius.

Posted: **Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:05 pm**

Craminator wrote:I've been away from modding for a few years working and playing live music. I came back about 2 months ago to start on a map for CS:S, and the SDK hasn't changed much. Did valve care more about their SDK developments in the early days of the source engine, when they expected everyone to release content for them? Did they realize by mid 2009 that there was a lot of low quality content being created for their titles (namely orange maps in CS:S, and DOD:S); which in turn made their titles look like showcases for amateur level designers who don't have the wits to use the tools?
Secondly, are the fundamentals of the engine too outdated for a true need to upgrade the editor/compilers? The source engine is still using upgraded quake2 technologies. It was released in 2004 - that's 7 long years of minor upgrades, and few improvements. If you want to factor in that the Source engine is still a modded Quake2 engine we're griping about 15 year old technology.

1997 1 (December 9th)quake2 engine released
1998 2 (November 19th)half-life engine released
1999 3
2000 4
2001 5
2002 6
2003 7
2004 8 (November 16th)Source engine released
2005 9
2006 10 (Engine update)
2007 11 (Engine update)
2008 12
2009 13 (Engine update)
2010 14
2011 15 (I now have the option of 'Source engine MP' in my list and nothing new that stands out!)

On a positive note, veteran developers of all calibers are comfortable with the Source engine. It's very flexible and powerful in the right hands. You can always count on a *.qc with *.smd run through studiomdl.exe with basic/advanced parameters will give you a model which the engine can run. I think this ancient proven technology still has a lot of power and potential. This engine is wonderful and people have done amazing things within its boundaries. We'll have to wait and see if they give us a re-vamped Hammer editor. Or even a more dynamic and powerful non third party model and material compiling GUI, which works with hammer.
If any of you keep up with Id software's tech5 engine, and the IW engine (COD engine). You'll notice that modding and indie development are not at the forefront. Big developers aren't too interested in community driven content. Carmack set us all straight in his keynotes about open development on the Tech5 engine, it was a 10 minute "Yeah... but no.". Are they closing their doors to the average Joe mapper, to ensure top notch content? Are they saving the average Joe from a mental melt down from the learning curve that comes along with the engines? Or is it both?
UDK is downloading to my PC right now. It looks like the UnrealED from the original Unreal game, and all the titles throughout. Their encouraging people to get into the game development industry. Sweet! I remember making maps for Unreal Fortress in the early 2000's. Coming from the quake worldspawn where leaks can ruin 10 hours of work, subtractive worldspawn is a dream to work in. I still love the source engine, and feel like I have a lot to explore within it.

That doesn't seem too unlikely. Their support for server plugins have gone down alot over the last couple of years, because it ruined the core gameplay for new players, thinking they bought some terrible game.

I could easily see the same thing happening with levels. What sucks even more is the fact that they're not even open about it, because they don't want to offend said shitty mappers.

I guess I need to step up my game, and make my own god damn editor.

Posted: **Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:54 pm**

Smurftyours wrote:None can beat my series of shit maps from the last night.

When are these Shit Map Nights?

Posted: **Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:22 pm**

Ark11 wrote:
Smurftyours wrote:None can beat my series of shit maps from the last night.

When are these Shit Map Nights?

Derailing, but we haven't had one in a long while as far as I can remember. That means anytime now we could have another.

Posted: **Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:45 am**

It would be nice if they have another tech leap. HL modding 'died' after a few years and then HL2 came along and it's still going, even if it's dying again. No reason ep:3/dota2/whatevers next couldn't spur another resurgence, especially with an engine face lift.

Posted: **Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:07 am**

I agree Mr.Happy. It would suck if they decided to re-make hammer and screw everything up beyond repair. I still believe in "If it isn't broke don't fix it"... Hammer is Worldcraft, which has been around since September 28, 1996. There was also Qoole, which had brush limitations. I just hope they don't throw some ugly skin on Hammer and add a bunch of buggy new functions. That would kill the community.

Look Familiar?

Posted: **Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:52 pm**

I don't know, as much as I have grown accustom to Hammer, I feel like a big SDK update would be refreshing, given that it actually functions and doesn't have enormous amounts of critical bugs that don't get fixed in a timely fashion.

Posted: **Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:59 am**

I think it would be great if they rethought everything, even wrote a whole new suite of tools from scratch. That doesn't mean any of the good aspects would have to be lost.

Posted: **Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:20 pm**

I don't think they'll make a new suite of mapping tools until they make a totally new engine that's more modern; that breaks free of the Quake roots. An engine more like UE3 or Cryengine 3.

Also, what exactly were these last couple of updates to the SDK supposed to be? What's this new "itemtest" tool in the SDK meant for? Are they getting ready for that "overhaul" of the SDK they promised earlier this year?

Posted: **Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:24 pm**

ScarT wrote:
Craminator wrote:I've been away from modding for a few years working and playing live music. I came back about 2 months ago to start on a map for CS:S, and the SDK hasn't changed much. Did valve care more about their SDK developments in the early days of the source engine, when they expected everyone to release content for them? Did they realize by mid 2009 that there was a lot of low quality content being created for their titles (namely orange maps in CS:S, and DOD:S); which in turn made their titles look like showcases for amateur level designers who don't have the wits to use the tools?
Secondly, are the fundamentals of the engine too outdated for a true need to upgrade the editor/compilers? The source engine is still using upgraded quake2 technologies. It was released in 2004 - that's 7 long years of minor upgrades, and few improvements. If you want to factor in that the Source engine is still a modded Quake2 engine we're griping about 15 year old technology.

1997 1 (December 9th)quake2 engine released
1998 2 (November 19th)half-life engine released
1999 3
2000 4
2001 5
2002 6
2003 7
2004 8 (November 16th)Source engine released
2005 9
2006 10 (Engine update)
2007 11 (Engine update)
2008 12
2009 13 (Engine update)
2010 14
2011 15 (I now have the option of 'Source engine MP' in my list and nothing new that stands out!)

On a positive note, veteran developers of all calibers are comfortable with the Source engine. It's very flexible and powerful in the right hands. You can always count on a *.qc with *.smd run through studiomdl.exe with basic/advanced parameters will give you a model which the engine can run. I think this ancient proven technology still has a lot of power and potential. This engine is wonderful and people have done amazing things within its boundaries. We'll have to wait and see if they give us a re-vamped Hammer editor. Or even a more dynamic and powerful non third party model and material compiling GUI, which works with hammer.
If any of you keep up with Id software's tech5 engine, and the IW engine (COD engine). You'll notice that modding and indie development are not at the forefront. Big developers aren't too interested in community driven content. Carmack set us all straight in his keynotes about open development on the Tech5 engine, it was a 10 minute "Yeah... but no.". Are they closing their doors to the average Joe mapper, to ensure top notch content? Are they saving the average Joe from a mental melt down from the learning curve that comes along with the engines? Or is it both?
UDK is downloading to my PC right now. It looks like the UnrealED from the original Unreal game, and all the titles throughout. Their encouraging people to get into the game development industry. Sweet! I remember making maps for Unreal Fortress in the early 2000's. Coming from the quake worldspawn where leaks can ruin 10 hours of work, subtractive worldspawn is a dream to work in. I still love the source engine, and feel like I have a lot to explore within it.

That doesn't seem too unlikely. Their support for server plugins have gone down alot over the last couple of years, because it ruined the core gameplay for new players, thinking they bought some terrible game.

I could easily see the same thing happening with levels. What sucks even more is the fact that they're not even open about it, because they don't want to offend said shitty mappers.

I guess I need to step up my game, and make my own god damn editor.

No, not a new editor. I think it would me much easier to reverse engineer Hammer(or parts of the SDK) and fix those bugs.That way it may take you just 1 year instead of 10.

Posted: **Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:25 pm**

Itemtest.exe is for TF2 hats.

Posted: **Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:36 pm**

"I think if valve has a downfall in the future in the game market it will be their ability hiring talented programmers that want to take their technology forward. CL tools and compiling to see a light is crime in this day in age."

Valve has 10 powerfull computers that work together to compile a map and 2 monitors: one for Hammer and one for testing the map inside Source.

Posted: **Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:10 pm**

Both the Frostbite 2 engine and UE3 must compile their maps/content. Some of the most advanced engines still need to compile stuff. Though, the UnrealEditor does show an approximation of the lighting before build.

Interlopers.net Forum - Half-Life 2 News & Tutorials

Serious theory (SDK)

Re: Serious theory (SDK)

Re: Serious theory (SDK)

Re: Serious theory (SDK)

Re: Serious theory (SDK)

Re: Serious theory (SDK)

Re: Serious theory (SDK)

Re: Serious theory (SDK)

Re: Serious theory (SDK)

Re: Serious theory (SDK)

Re: Serious theory (SDK)

Re: Serious theory (SDK)

Re: Serious theory (SDK)

Re: Serious theory (SDK)

Re: Serious theory (SDK)

Re: Serious theory (SDK)