The European Union

[Kremator]

WATCH OUT FOR CHINA MANNNNNN.

I'm just going to throw in an Asian perspective here, it's true that Asian "supernations" are rising at a meteoric rate but I feel that this pace is too fast, especially in China. People in China have no idea how to spend money, they are overcame by this sense of new found wealth that burgeoned in less than a generation's time and everybody started spending to fill in the void. The suicide rate in China has nearly doubled in the past decade and I think if the EU falls, Asia might not be too far behind, at least in terms of the collective mental health.

[jister]

United States is a money pit too, but becuase their currency is the 'reserve currency' of the world, there getting a free ride to finance their fiscal debt. EU can't do this, they have to borrow from the IMF. If it wasn't the case the individual states that make up U.S would have already be falling apart decades ago like the EU is. But in way there kinda already are. California is in deep shit right now. Really the greater issue at hand is how money is created. Money is debt when its created and it has interest. You cannot pay back debt with the same money you borrowed with interest, where would get the interest? So no EU and no country will get out of debt. This 'debt crisis' is problem created by are how stupid monatary system is set up.

Since the euro Europe has the same system as America. US has the federal reserve, a private corp. printing the Dollar.
We have the ECB (European Central Bank) a private corp. printing the Euro. We both gave our national gold reserve as a collateral to these PRIVATELY OWNED BANKS!!??
Just think about it, all the nations using the Euro gave their gold to a privately owned institute...? how much more stupid can you imagine a economic system?

also the EU was an Nazi invention: # is what the nazis had in mind. ° Is what we have today.

# Europaische Wirtshaftsgemeinschaft
°European Economic Community

# European Currency System
°European Exchange Rate Mechanism

# Europabank (Berlin)
°European Central Bank (Frankfurt)

# European Regional Principle
°Committee of the Regions

# Common Labour Policy
°Social Chapter

# Economic and Trading Agreements
°Single Market

well and the list of evil goes on...
for example did you know the Lisbon treaty allows child labour from age 12?? why should something like that even be in there??

Oh well as i see it, it's just an in between step on the way to One World Government.
If the EU will hold or not? you know sometimes failure serves the goal of success.

[Mighty Monk]

Well, this sort of discussion is right up my street!

I for one am hoping for a referendum soon here in Britain on our membership the EU. I'm most certainly going to be voting "OUT" when it happens!

Why? Because for my country, it is doing nothing but damage.


- We pay billions and billions of pounds in and get very little back.

- It's stifling our trade with other country's and other members of the Commonwealth.

- A huge percentage of our laws (rumored to be around 70%!) are dictated by the unelected, undemocratic facists that haunt their HQ in Brussels.

- We have zero control over immigration from both EU and some non-EU country's.

- The EU president, Van Rompuy, stated late last year that it is "a lie" and an "illusion" for any nation to believe it can survive without the EU. The man and his evil friends want an EU Federal State where there are no longer nations, just regions, i.e. Britain would be Region 21 and I would have to call myself "European".

There are many other reasons, but they are some of the main ones. I'm personally a member of the UK Independence Party, whom the aforementioned Nigel Farage leads. Slowly, but surely, the party is picking up more and more votes with each election. We recently came second in a by-election in a constituency that is dominated by the Labour party.

[Sporkeh]

- We pay billions and billions of pounds in and get very little back.

Pay to what?

- It's stifling our trade with other country's and other members of the Commonwealth.

How is the EU doing that?

- A huge percentage of our laws (rumored to be around 70%!) are dictated by the unelected, undemocratic facists that haunt their HQ in Brussels.

This is simply not true.

- We have zero control over immigration from both EU and some non-EU country's.

Also not true.

- The EU president, Van Rompuy, stated late last year that it is "a lie" and an "illusion" for any nation to believe it can survive without the EU. The man and his evil friends want an EU Federal State where there are no longer nations, just regions, i.e. Britain would be Region 21 and I would have to call myself "European".

Post source.

[joe_rogers_11155]

I have no comments regarding this discussion on the EU. But I would just like to point out that the user Sporkeh joined Interlopers.net on 17 MAY 2011 (yesterday) and his very first post on a forum designed to assist with Source development was:

Source engine is shit.

Prove me wrong.

And all his subsequent posts have been equally abrasive. Feel free to delete my post here...but I feel compelled to point out Sporkeh's behavior because he is bound to damage this serious discussion.

[Sporkeh]

And all his subsequent posts have been equally abrasive. Feel free to delete my post here...but I feel compelled to point out Sporkeh's behavior because he is bound to damage this serious discussion.

Chat about serious topics and issues. Any flaming/de-railing will be deleted.

Please contact me or a moderator if you have a problem.

[Klifsnider]

>Read OP's post
>Laugh
>Click first link
>Nigel Farage video opens
>Laugh again
>Type an angry message with valid arguments
>Delete it and write this instead. OP is a stupid populist. Med students should stick to playing doctor.

[zombie@computer]

>Read OP's post
>Laugh
>Click first link
>Nigel Farage video opens
>Laugh again
>Type an angry message with valid arguments
>Delete it and write this instead. OP is a stupid populist. Med students should stick to playing doctor.

Your argumentation is rock solid, sir. I'll stop living cuz you are so much better than all of us

Edit: ah, you Belgian. Certainly the best people to know how to lead a country

[source-maps]

Edit: ah, you Belgian. Certainly the best people to know how to lead a country

edit:

also the EU was an Nazi invention: # is what the nazis had in mind. ° Is what we have today.

# Europaische Wirtshaftsgemeinschaft
°European Economic Community

# European Currency System
°European Exchange Rate Mechanism

# Europabank (Berlin)
°European Central Bank (Frankfurt)

# European Regional Principle
°Committee of the Regions

# Common Labour Policy
°Social Chapter

# Economic and Trading Agreements
°Single Market

well and the list of evil goes on...

also, I just wanted to point out.. just because a person is evil doesn't mean that all his believes are.. I mean people like Bill O Riley still use "Stalin was an Athiest' as an argument.. which with he means that Atheism must be bad because Stalin was an evil dictator

that doesn't mean I agree with it EU union.. just saying you shouldn't use those kind of arguments

[xoqolatl]

Greece is basically bankrupt, even after the injection of several tens of billions of euro's, Ireland is on the brink of. Portugal is striking like hell because its next in line, Spain wont follow long after.

That's funny. I understand how a person can be bankrupt, or how a company can be bankrupt. When a coffee shop goes bankrupt, it's closed and disappears, and some new business soon takes its place. But what does "Greece is bankrupt" mean? Countries can't be bankrupt. Is it the government that is bankrupt? Or individual people? What happened? Did all Greece's services and wares suddenly disappear? Or maybe most of the people just work the way they always did, but some politician who doesn't create wares nor services just declare them bankrupt?

Amazing how easy minds are washed to repeat things without giving a thought to what they mean.

[Dionysos]

It's a rigged game, and people are starting to notice, bit by bit.

[Klifsnider]

Your argumentation is rock solid, sir. I'll stop living cuz you are so much better than all of us

Edit: ah, you Belgian. Certainly the best people to know how to lead a country

Here's my problem with Nigel Farage: he uses almost exclusively 'ad hominem' arguments. In other words, personal attacks. He doesn't make the news very often here in Belgium, but I remember that he made the news when he did that personal attack on the President of the European Council, a Belgian, and a few weeks later called Belgium a "non-country".

Now, I was taught that Ad hominem-arguments are the lamest and stupidest arguments, we've all been doing it since we were children, calling eachother names, and it is in fact sort of childish, plus you don't have to be very clever do to it. This is why I consider him to be a relatively stupid person. If you look him up on wikipedia you can see that the list of scandals he caused is bigger than his biography. He is simply a person that likes to draw attention by making dumb and insultive statements.

Now, moving on to you, I guess you can relate to him, as you immediately took the bait: you started mocking me and generalized all Belgians. You seem to be an easily influencable person with no critical outlook on the world or on any of the information that you process. Not to worry though, to be a successful doctor you just have to be good at memorizing your book. I doubt that you did any more research on the EU other than watching those youtube clips, your statement that there are no benefits from being in the EU clearly proves this and is very amusing.

Have a nice day!

[MayheM]

Actually that's not how bankruptcy works.

But what zombie is describing is the effects of mutually assured economic destruction. This idea was to make sure country did not squabble by linking the global economy together. Basically no one would attack a country they are financially responsible, or linked to (at least in theory). Obviously the problem with this, is what we are witnessing now. It is set up like a bunch of dominoes. Greece being the first to fall and as he states the rest are following. This is all because in general our governments all spend WAY too much money!

The idea of a county going bankrupt is more that they will be beholden to those they owe money to. No longer giving them the right to do as they feel is best for their country. The US is technically not bankrupt yet, but a good example of this would be when China told Obama not to meet with the dalai lama while visiting them. He caved and did not because our government need China to keep loaning us money. That is speculation on my part but if the shoe fits...

Anyway, I am staunchly against world governments or anything like it. If everyone is ruled by the same group and that group is tyrannical, where do we the people have to go to escape the shit? There is a reason

An interseting thing that was pointed out some time ago...

Most of you will roll your eyes at this... but the EU headquarters building is pretty similar to this illustration of the tower of babel. For those of you not familiar with the story, A king tried to bring everyone together under one nation. I was destroyed/ fell apart... Pretty interesting parallel, even if you do not believe in it.

[Sporkeh]

Oh it's cylindrical in shape!

[LordDz]

So God said, "Come, let us go down and confound their speech." And so God scattered them upon the face of the Earth, and confused their languages, and they left off building the city, which was called Babel "because God there confounded the language of all the Earth."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel

But since god doesn't exist... Does this mean it will work?