What is your religion/belief?

[The Giblets of Jesus]

But it does not give me the right to tell you you can not believe in them... Or to say people that believe in them should be forced to stop believing. Hey man, if believing in flying teapots makes your life better and more fulfilling, then by all means go ahead.

I disagree.

If anyone around me was to do that I would do everything in my power to stop being such a moronic twat.

This belief, It has no purpose, it's false hope, could lead to an unhealthy psychological state, dis-encourages reasonable, logical and critical thinking, and above all, IS JUST A TEAPOT.

If someone truly did find comfort in this ignorance then I would say that are clearly mad and need a good slapping across the chops to bring them back to the harsh cold reality of life.

Life isn't easy, that doesn't mean the answers have to be either.

[MayheM]

What does it matter to you what people believe? Why is it so freaking hard for people just to let others live their own lives. It is becoming increasingly clear that those who believe in God on these forums just want to live their lives without non-believers giving them a case of the ass about how they choose to live, yet those who do not believe just want to prove others wrong. News flash people, you will NEVER convince me that God does not exist! Just as in all likelihood i will never convince you he does exist (though since I am not trying to do that it is not the same). So why don't we, rather than bash each other and call other people "moronic twat's", treat each other with some freaking respect. We can all disagree on things until we are blue in the face and it does nothing but push people apart. We ALL need to respect each other enough to let each other believe what we wish to believe. It is not an atheists job to convince the world God does not exist. And if that is what you think, consider yourself fired!

This thread is about what each of us believe. What we should take from the first post is that people need to accept each other for who they are and not what they believe. I am really bothered by how nonchalant some of your are making blanket statements and how utterly disrespectful some of you are to others beliefs. You may not feel you are being that way, but I can assure you that you are. You are free to believe what you want, just don't try to jam your beliefs down my throat. Somewhere along the line someone obviously tried to jam religion down your throat and we can see how that worked out. So let us try a different tactic and just let each other believe what we wish. You do not have to respect what I believe, but you should at least respect my right to do so.

[thefight]

But it does not give me the right to tell you you can not believe in them... Or to say people that believe in them should be forced to stop believing. Hey man, if believing in flying teapots makes your life better and more fulfilling, then by all means go ahead.

I disagree.

If anyone around me was to do that I would do everything in my power to stop being such a moronic twat.

This belief, It has no purpose, it's false hope, could lead to an unhealthy psychological state, dis-encourages reasonable, logical and critical thinking, and above all, IS JUST A TEAPOT.

If someone truly did find comfort in this ignorance then I would say that are clearly mad and need a good slapping across the chops to bring them back to the harsh cold reality of life.

Life isn't easy, that doesn't mean the answers have to be either.

That is your opinion, what you believe. You can't and shouldn't force your opinions down others throats just because you think that you are right. Many people believe that God is obvious and they can't understand how people don't believe in Him, whereas others can't comprehend how someone could believe in religion and a God. There will always be religion and there will always be this argument until man's dying day. It all goes down to what you believe and your certain views on life, there is no right or wrong choice.

and what Mayhem said

[source-maps]

source-maps, it is not that cut and dry... Saying all religions are made up by mankind goes against what people who believe in God... believe. The problem is you have a hard time seeing how anyone can believe what they can not prove.

I was thinking about this while i was getting ready for work. Granted this example is a bit different, but it has some merit so... We all take science classes. Some of which, at least the ones when we are young are all theoretically based, meaning we do not actually test the knowledge we read in the books. We just learn to not question them. Regardless of if they can or can not be proven, we believe them without question. Many of us have never looked at the molecular composition of the air we breath yet we still believe it is made up of several different gasses because someone wrote it in a book after they ran the tests. You personally have no proof other than what you have read. Does that make it untrue? There are countless things that can fall into this category. Granted, you could run the test yourself, but most will not. Most will continue to believe what they read in books. By no means am I trying to disprove what people read or write in science text books, I am just making a point...

Also, there is surely a difference between belief and faith. I believe in evolution, I have faith in God...

funny that you mention it because I was actually at work when I thought about if some one would say 'prove to me your science is right'
well you are right, I personally cannot prove this.. but if I would take the necessary studies and do all the research.. I would find all the evidence I need
and here comes common sense into play.. what I can.. others can too.. so if those studies were false and they were teaching it at school.. someone would have proven it wrong.. because of the competitive nature of humankind.

If someone would do the same to prove the holy books are right, they simply cannot accomplish this because it's not true
anyway, the religious people on the forum already agreed that things like evolution in true.. so there is no need to debate over this.

my point is, I'm not going to say.. 'hey your religion might be true' just so people who believe in it won't be offended.. then I would not speak the truth, all religions are simply false.. same goes for myths and such.

also mayhem, I don't really mind that other people still believe in that non-sense.. like I said I even have a friend that thinks that we come from Aliens.. I'm pretty tolerant about that stuff
what you guys simply need to realize is that I'm just saying what is real and what is not.. if you wanna be delusional.. go ahead

oh boy.. I know this sounds offending, but really can't put it any other way

edit:
and yes, I think we need to respect each other views.. but you religious folks can't handle points like 'all religions are false' well.. get over it because it just is
in no way I am telling you there is no god.. we simply do not know enough about the universe to make an educated guess about this.. religions on the other hand are all false.


edit2: the fight, I disagree... there will be one day that all traditional religions will be gone.. tho, the no god/yes god debate will go on untill the end of time.

[Gary]

This discussion is no fun.

[MayheM]

Wow man, you just do not get it... Or maybe with your last statement you do and just don't care. I just deleted a huge flame post because I am choosing to take the high road on this one. I will sum it up with this. When it comes to commenting on another persons beliefs, you don't have to lie and say "hey your religion could be right". The best thing to do is not say anything. Just let it go. Nothing good will come of you saying things like what you said above to your friends.

The biggest problem I see with this discussion is an unwillingness by some to just admit that some people believe differently from you. It is that same unwillingness that causes crazy fuckers to fly planes into buildings, blow up buses of innocent men and woman, caused the church to torture people during the inquisition, etc... I am trying to help you understand that you do not need to believe what I believe. But if you can not talk about this topic without being condescending and brash, it is probably best if you leave the conversation to the people who can show that courtesy.

Sure there are some people out there who believe in God and do things in his name that are entirely wrong. That is without question. But it is the people doing those things who are wrong, not religion itself. No matter the religion, they are all based upon peace. When people forget that problems happen. There is surely some disdain for religion by some of you. No one likes to have things forced upon them, ironically it seems those who have turned from God for this very reason are often the ones who are now forcing their beliefs.

Believe what you will, live your life and remember your rights end where another persons rights begin.

[source-maps]

Wow man, you just do not get it... Or maybe with your last statement you do and just don't care. I just deleted a huge flame post because I am choosing to take the high road on this one. I will sum it up with this. When it comes to commenting on another persons beliefs, you don't have to lie and say "hey your religion could be right". The best thing to do is not say anything. Just let it go. Nothing good will come of you saying things like what you said above to your friends.

The biggest problem I see with this discussion is an unwillingness by some to just admit that some people believe differently from you. It is that same unwillingness that causes crazy fuckers to fly planes into buildings, blow up buses of innocent men and woman, caused the church to torture people during the inquisition, etc... I am trying to help you understand that you do not need to believe what I believe. But if you can not talk about this topic without being condescending and brash, it is probably best if you leave the conversation to the people who can show that courtesy.

Sure there are some people out there who believe in God and do things in his name that are entirely wrong. That is without question. But it is the people doing those things who are wrong, not religion itself. No matter the religion, they are all based upon peace. When people forget that problems happen. There is surely some disdain for religion by some of you. No one likes to have things forced upon them, ironically it seems those who have turned from God for this very reason are often the ones who are now forcing their beliefs.

Believe what you will, live your life and remember your rights end where another persons rights begin.

imo you don't really get it.. I am fine with religions..that doesn't make it true tho
but at the same time, I am happy that it is slowly dying like I said earlier.. because I don't see the point in delusional hope or comfort.. might as well start taking all kinds of drugs then to make me feel happy :S

[MayheM]

That statement is as ridiculous as say, "no offense, but you are an asshole" You are saying you are fine with religion but in the same breath you bash those who follow one by calling them delusional. If you cannot see that then you are oblivious. To clarify prefacing a condescending statement with a rational thought does not make the condescension go away.

[The Giblets of Jesus]

@ Mayhem

Actually, I never once mentioned religion there, I was talking about a teapot

[Dionysos]

I wouldn't say writing something on the internet equates to forcing someone to be atheist.

I can't claim I'm intimately familiar with the US but in Europe I absolutely do not get the impression that atheists try to force religious people to abandon god in their personal lives. Secularism doesn't apply to peoples personal life.

I also don't think atheists have a problem simply admitting other people believe in different things. I rather think it baffles them to the point of exasperation.

Then again, this debate is pointless. We've had one before nothing ever gets resolved.

[Gary]

Edit: Religion is too touchy of a subject.

[thefight]

imo you don't really get it.. I am fine with religions..that doesn't make it true tho
but at the same time, I am happy that it is slowly dying like I said earlier.. because I don't see the point in delusional hope or comfort.. might as well start taking all kinds of drugs then to make me feel happy :S

You say you are fine with religions, but then you say you are happy they are dying. It seems to me you don't like religions. I don't think religion will ever go away, there is so much people get out of it and it keeps them away from bad things. There are countless people who have turned to a religion and seen the "light" and I think that it is great for them. These are people who were drug abusers, alcoholics, and people who had incurable (as science says) diseases and they were all able to be freed from these burdens. This "delusional hope or comfort" is not delusional at all, the hope and comfort is right there with them. I don't like when people hate religion or want to see it die away, I would rather people turn to a God instead of drugs or others forms of self injury. Hope they get from religion is no different than hope you can get from a person you talk to. It can help you survive and get through life, many times with more happiness.

Why do you dislike religions so much? There has to be more than just what you have said already, and if it is you should think about it more. I'm not trying to get you to become religious I just want to fully understand what religion does for people, because I don't think you are seeing the whole picture.

[MayheM]

Yet I do not think this was ever meant to be a debate. It turned into that when people made some less than kind statements.

In the US there is a push to force God out of peoples lives. Not in all places, but many. Growing up I said the pledge of allegiance every morning before school. The original version of said pledge did not contain what was later add, "under God". Red Skelton commented, quite prophetically I might add, that he hopes it is not removed from school because it is seen as a prayer. Sadly that very thing happened. There are also "Holiday trees" replacing "Christmas trees" and stupid stuff like that. There was even a girl I work with who sent out a "Secret Buddy" (replacing "Secret Santa") e-mail during the holidays. She was willing to enjoy the tradition of gift giving that Christmas bring but was unwilling to admit it was based on a religions holiday. Sure it may not seem like a big deal but to those who actually celebrate the holidays it is bothersome. I wonder what would happen if those who believe in God where given holidays off work but those who do not have to work. Would that be seen as fair? Probably not... At least in the eyes of those who have to work on Christmas, Easter, Hanukkah, etc... Sadly though, society has taken those holidays and warped them to be commercialized so I am sure people will argue that those holidays are not religions.

But you are right the debate is pointless.

[Dionysos]

I think you are mistaking a push for secularism as an invasion of your right to privately do/believe as you wish. Either a state is secular, or not. "under God" may now be tradition, but it isn't secular (not to mention how questionable the pledge is in itself), and so it has no place in a public school. I agree calling christmas something else just to be politically correct is retarded.

[MayheM]

How is the Pledge in any way questionable?

"I pledge allegence to the flag, of the United States of America.
and to the Republic for which it stand, one nation, (under God), indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

You are not pledging allegiance to a leader, or any one person. But rather the entire nation, to all those who reside.
What is wrong with love of country? Or the wish of liberty and justice for all? The placement of Under God is not even done in a way in which it could be seen as a prayer. We as a country have lost who we are. We go around telling people they need to be like us when we are no longer what we were meant to be. I am convinced it is one reason the world hates us so damn much. Kids growing up today no longer see living in this country as gift, or even as a good thing. They grow up reading all the crap about us and see the US as the enemy or the bad guy. I am sorry but I have issues with kids growing up self loathing. But this is talking about kids in the US and our pledge. I think everyone citizen should have love for the country in which they live. Not in it's leaders but the collection of people who reside and make the country great. This does not take away from the other countries in the world are, it is just a pride in where you're from.

But back on topic, in the states we have separation of church and state. This was put into place so that people where not forced to believe in things they do not. It was stated that there will be no federally dictated religion. However many states did in fact have "state religions". Similar to the state bird, it does not mean t is the only religion allowed int he state, but it was the majority. People where free to believe as they wished. But, Somewhere the sentence of "separation OF church and state" became "separation FROM church and state". People began to remove God from every day life in the attempt to stop those nonreligious people from being offended. Meanwhile they offended those who are religious. So what is fair? If a school says the pledge of allegiance in class every morning a student is free to not recite it. Some would argue that if they do not they will be ridiculed. Well is that the fault of the pledge, or is it ignorance of those reciting it. "Liberty and Justice for ALL" You do not have to believe it, you do not have to say it ALL is ALL. The problem is not in the pledge, and it is not in the existence of religion but rather the intolerance for those who do not agree. It all comes back to that...