What is your religion/belief?

[Klifsnider]

Erhhh... Catholicism is Christian... Along with Protestantism and the Orthodox.
Why did you list it seperately?

Anyways I'm Catholic, but only go to church for weddings / funerals.

People have been discussing religion since the first civilisations, and since there is no definitive answer I refuse to spend any of my time doing the same thing. Be critical about what people tell you and you will be fine.

[Plague]

I hate it when Atheists and Believers (whatever religion) underplay God(s)...

Why is science the deciding factor?
Why is evolution some sort of proof?

I believe in Evolution and all forms of science, but as I said before I am still open to the possibility.

Would the Almighty All-Seeing All Knowing All Powerful God of All Things not be capable of starting the universe in his own image and crafted it with its own destiny?

Could he not have created cells who had their own destiny to evolve and continue on into todays current world?




Honestly, its like people of religion and not of religion forget that this debate is impossible to solve.

[Dr. Delta]

I hate it when Atheists and Believers (whatever religion) underplay God(s)...

Why is science the deciding factor?
Why is evolution some sort of proof?

I believe in Evolution and all forms of science, but as I said before I am still open to the possibility.

Would the Almighty All-Seeing All Knowing All Powerful God of All Things not be capable of starting the universe in his own image and crafted it with its own destiny?

Could he not have created cells who had their own destiny to evolve and continue on into todays current world?




Honestly, its like people of religion and not of religion forget that this debate is impossible to solve.

Who created god?

[The Giblets of Jesus]

Juicy text time!

The main reason these debates keep going is because the main 2 main sets.

1. Atheists take the (most would say) logical approach to determining that, within our realm of reality of laws of being, it is simply impossible for such a being to possibly exist, especially when so many different versions of the same story have been told throughout history.

And

2. The religious mindset (of which I cannot speak for but can offer my taking on their mindsets) which is largely based on self involvement of an idea personified by the people around them, events throughout history, their own and as I'm sure a lot will hopefully agree with me, a fear of death. These ideas manifest themselves to the point where the God theory exits the realms of uncertainty and, in the persons mind, becomes certain reality. Faith.

Now, assuming I haven't made some sort of literary cock-up in the last few lines, then its safe to assume that neither of these mind sets can be broken very easily, at least, without the persons own willingness to comply.

I am, and can see myself, being an Atheist for the rest of my days, and nothing that anyone will every say and perform in front of me is going to deter me from that. The same is true for Theists.

It all comes down to this. Are you really thinking openly?

No. None of us are.
It is entirely possible that we are to a greater life form, what bacteria are to us, especially now that omiverse theory's are now cropping up. So yes, as an Athiest, there is a probability that there is a greater life that created us.

But Theists, this doesn't prove a single word you have ever heard about god or religion. This is all theory, easily disproved with single piece of data and currently, there is absolutely, categorically, no evidence what so ever to prove the white beardy man that lives in the sky. That part is a myth, a figment of the imagination. And it certainly doesn't provide an excuse for it to influence the actions of others or even yourself.

/bigjuicytextwithnobodyprobablycaresabout

[Plague]

Who created god?

If proving God Exists is impossible, Then it is so for who created him.

You could say he just is.
Or you could claim maybe there is not but just A "God" but rather a civilization that lived before us that reached a theoretical peaking point in evolution (technologically and/or biologically) and created this universe.


Again, when you throw in such a wild card like a being who can do anything (at least the Christian god fits this role) it becomes impossible to solve.



The truest form of proof might be if we found another alien civilization that either:
A. Looked and was more or less biologically the same, which would suggest potential for possible sentient intrusion.
(with the exception of other things like extreme coincidence or popular Super-Race concepts)

B. Another alien species who has a religion extremely similar to one on our planet.
(Again, Coincidence could play a role in this. Not hard to come across the same concept in religion to us)


But really, until god starts throwing lightning bolts down and comes out of the heavens we really can't prove shit.
All science falls victim at the first mention of God.







I actually favor the concept of an otherwise very "god-like" alien.
It would make sense, all religion is false and really we are a petri-dish for some experiment on a grand scale.

[cz_squishy]

Who created god?

Man

[no00dylan]

Who created god?

Man

Voltaire

[kkirspel]

@ kkirspel, I know what you mean. The main reason I am single is because I am religious (to a point) and I am a fiscal conservative and live in a city that is known for its liberal beliefs. I actually had a girl tell me I would be the perfect guy if I was not so "conservative". That's what closed minded people get you... Putting limitations on people because of what they believe in their personal life. Religion is not who you are, it is what you believe. There is a big difference...

I've had the exact opposite happen to me; I've had moments where the girl was like "you're like my perfect guy, but you just need to accept Jesus into your heart"
...it was also opposite in that we did not hook up - her holding onto the Christian value "sex after marriage"

I feel like we should switch places, like Wife Swap - except mappers are switched instead...
...Interlopers Swap? (working title)

Who created god?

Man

^just made me remember that, thats all.

[thefight]

I think one of the biggest questions that goes with God/No God argument is who created us?

This question does not have an answer that we know, but I find it a very intriguing one.

Did we just exist, just because? or was there an outside force (what we usually refer to as God)? Who created God? (most religions believe him to have always been in existence, but I find that a little to simple of an answer)

These are the kind of questions that kept me from truly believing or not believing. You could argue your entire life with people on these and never get a concrete answer, only theories or could-have-been's.



And as for Atheists having more logical thoughts on these issues, your arguments and beliefs are based just as much on theories and unproven science as religions are. Religious people are more of the questioning type than atheists, since they have to constantly question what they do and why they do it. They have to be aware of what they are doing, making sure they follow their beliefs, and they understand their actions. Obviously this could go both ways, but I find that religious people are more aware.

People have been discussing religion since the first civilisations, and since there is no definitive answer I refuse to spend any of my time doing the same thing. Be critical about what people tell you and you will be fine.

So you're just going to leave it at that? Just because there is no right answer does not mean that you can't learn from these discussions. I find that talking about religion and peoples thoughts on it is very enlightening. The discussions go far beyond God or the Bible. It can show you whole new ways to see life and will only further you as a person if you can listen and learn. I enjoy learning and making life more meaningful. Your post made you look very narrow-minded and closed to furthering yourself a person.

Disclaimer: I have not looked into atheism much, but from talking to people this is what I have gotten out of it, If I am wrong please correct me.

Non-believers say that religious people will believe what ever, as long as it is in the Bible or a high religious figure said it, well don't you non-believers believe what ever science says and whatever a certain scientist says is true? Scientific facts are not always true. 10 years ago it was a FACT that Pluto was a planet. Today it is not. It used to be a FACT that African-Americans were not at the same level as Caucasians. Today it is not. I know some atheists who refuse to believe anything a priest or religious person says, just because they are religious, though I doubt that is an example of the majority of atheists.

[pk_hunter]

since there is no definitive answer I refuse to spend any of my time doing the same thing.

Then why not say "I don't know."
Why, when a lack of evidence is presented, do you believe the first crazy theory to come along? That's just daft.

It's pointless to debate anyway - the rest of the world is slowly catching on and the big religions are growing smaller and smaller. It's just a pain in the ass that it's taking this long.

Here's a fun thing: Organised religions are no better than scientology, yet everyone's quick to jump on the bandwagon and start hating on that.
I wish people would just take a few steps back and think logically about these things. I have a mate who is genuinely creationist. CREATIONIST in 2011?!! It makes me sick that he literally interprets the bible.
Why can't people accept that we just don't know yet. Why are people looking back to when we knew fuck all about the world to teach us how to live our lives today? Why can't people have their own beliefs rather than spouting those of massive organisations?

I'm not meaning to sound so militant, it just fucking depresses me so much that people don't think.

One Christian on this forum explain to me how your religion is the right one when, had you been born into a family who believed in Islam, for example, you would assuredly not be Christian?

Actually don't bother. Arguing with people who have their mind completely made up is pointless. It has to be a realisation you come to yourself - I'm not going to be able to convince you.

[Unreal_Me]

Skipping over some of this (expected) argumentation going on, I'm gonna throw in my belief and the reasoning behind it.

Agnostic Atheist
When most people ask, I usually say I'm an atheist. This is mostly because most people think of agnostics as somebody who believes in a god of a main religion (usually Christianity).
However, the more correct term for my belief would be right in the middle: agnostic atheist; somebody who is not sure if there is a god or not, but chooses to assume no.
Hell you could label me an apatheist and you'd be pretty accurate.

This Existance
As for the concept of heaven or hell, I really don't care. I know for a fact that I have this life, and I plan to make use of it. I'm not going to let the carrot stick of heaven, or the fear of hell affect my decisions, and I'm certainly not going to base my entire moral compass around it.
If hell is the [i]only[/] thing keeping you from going on a murdering spree, you're a sociopath.
HOWEVER, if when I die, I land in a flaming pit of doom, I will bow to my fate. And then suffer for eternity or something.

11th Demensional
Personally, I think that if there is some supreme being out there, it doesn't fall into any constructs of any current religion. For all we know there may be some omniscient 11th dimensional being that instantly understands, or has always understood everything that could ever happen in our universe.
Or maybe there's nothing.
Hell, I think Stargate had a better guess at what happened than any religion I've heard about. It's essentially the same thing as what plague said in his second paragraph a few posts up

An Unbreakable Crate
I find an argument between an atheist and overly pious person is best described with this mental image:
An inventor trying to break an unbreakable box. No matter how ingenious or clever your method, you aren't going to break the crate. If nothing else you'll just compact it further.


Finally, I leave a link to a song with an awesome set of lyrics: Sour Grapes by Pucifer


Edit: Just thought of something while reading a few posts, and it's based on the concept that most, if not all people are born into a religion, and that people generally don't raise their kids with somebody who has a different idea of what ideology to teach their children.
It seems that the amount of people that convert from atheism/agnosticism is dwarfed by the number of people that fade out of religious guidelines (church, no pork, etc), and then raise their children in a relaxed setting.
Assuming somebody who grows up in that setting is likely to chose atheism/agnosticism, is it unreasonable to think that, barring some giant religious rampage, the world will eventually become agnostic/atheist?

[[frank]]

I want to hone in on one of the sentences in the original post. That is, that people are hateful towards "atheists".

Now, I am not sure where all of you are from, but to me, it is the opposite.

In Australia at least, it is frowned upon being affiliated with any religion really. I often never state my religious beliefs, even towards some of my friends, simply because it is likely to change something between us. I am sure the norm is now a very atheistic view (at least in the younger demographics).

To add a little touch, at the time of writing this, over 50% of the voters chose atheist as their option. Now, I don't aim to say this reflects your society / culture / experience, but (even for the relatively small sample size) people with religious beliefs are in the minority.

Quite often there are a few loud religious "fanatics", many more quiet ones, but then generally a large proportion of mid range athiests (in terms of outspokenness). If you don't feel yourself a part of a religion, and then say that you also don't wan't to call yourself and athiest, I wonder why.

(A side note. I seem to think that a large proportion of youthful religious ideology stems from wanting to rebel from their parents. It probably isn't that correct, but I see people disregarding religion because they want to get away from what they see in their own family)

[Mighty Monk]

Well how's this for reasoning... evolution can be proved. We witness it every day in cells and bacteria.

We've got fossils to show how man has changed, how horses legs have developed over thousands of years.

The only proof of religion is a book. Written by man.

God is Man. Man is god.

That's how I see it, anyway.

[[frank]]

Hows about this mighty.

Science and Relgion are different issues.

Science cannot prove religion, in the same way cannot disprove it.

Alternatively, Relgion cannot disprove science, and cannot prove it either.

Don't use science as a crutch to defend yourself in a religious argument.

(Don't start with "BUT BUT BUT in the middle ages science didn't advance because of religion". This may be true, but in a modern context, the rate of scientific advancement at the time was miniscule anyway)

[zombie@computer]

IMHO something that cant be proven, touched, seen, smelled, heard or whatevered, does not exist.
God cant be proven, touched, seen, smelled, heard or whatevered, hence he does not exist. What other people believe in or not i dont care, as long as they dont bother me, they can believe in Zeus for all i care. This is how i see it.