Thoughts on P2P, Pirating, and the likes...

[MayheM]

I am fairly certain almost everyone has downloaded content they do not legally own. For years when I was in the school and had little money I would get all my software that way. I always said "when I get a job and can afford the software, games and music I want I will buy it". For the most part I have held true to those words.

Today I was on Engadget and there is an article about Pirate Bay being down and/or being blocked by some ISP's (namely Comcast). There are some people on there who are up in arms about it. I have never been to that site, nor can I go when I am at work because it is blocked, but I can not help to be bothered by the fact so many people have gotten so numb to the idea of stealing that they have the audacity to get upset when someone tries to stop them.

Am I alone with this one? Or are the arguments for permitting piracy just a way to try and justify immoral behavior? The way I see it, many of the people on this forum are artists. Some musicians, some visual and graphically based, but many of you want to one day get paid for the talents you have developed. Giving away things for free sure feels nice, but it doesn't put food on the table or a roof over your head.

I have found it is really easy to continue down a path once you have started.

"Damn, I ran to the store and they did not have the CD I want in stock. I guess I will see if I can download it for free."
turns into...
"Lets see what music I can get for free today." far too quickly.

So, am I alone in my thinking? What do you guys think?

[LordDz]

I think it's a great service, I mean, programs and music etc for free over the internet, uploaded by other users? Genious!
It's just that part with money. So, I think people should develop the idea and get other ways of getting it out there, cheaper games? , better support? etc.

But yes, I think that if you download something and you like it, you should pay for it.

[poisonic]

well i would be happy and a little sad
but if downloading will be illegal, live would be more fun again
i never download illegal games,i only try game demo's if i like the game i will buy them.
i admit that i download mp3's USENET..
i also download episodes from series i like USENET..
and warez... i'm educated in autocad to keep myself in shape with the changes of the long line of 3d packages.
if that wares where lower in price i would buy a licence if 3dmax was only 350 euros i would buy it

[Ark11]

I think that pirating just because your too cheap to actually pay for things is wrong. But P2P and IP Blocking is good if your a hacker or something like that.

[MayheM]

Yeah 3d software is insane when it comes to price. I think it is almost like they need to charge that much because people pirate the software but people pirate the software because it costs so much. A self fulfilling prophecy in a way. Then again, this ties into the cost of games. Studios need to buy multiple copies of software and things like that in order to make their games and pass the price on to the consumer. Granted it is not like they have to buy nearly enough to actually dent their profits but still.

One of the people complaining about pirate bay being down said people put their own music up there to distribute for free. I cannot understand why someone would use pirate bay, which is known by name for getting pirated material, for legit and legal media. In that respect someone should create a place to upload things like that which can be shared. In actuality, there are places like that. Which just shows the argument is likely an attempt to justify bad behavior.

[BubbleQ]

I think that the way the most populuar linux distubitions handels (free) programs is the way of the future...

[Mr. Happy]

The only music I torrent tends to be rare/obscure/out of print stuff that I truly CAN'T buy, media that I've bought copies of that got lost or destroyed, or software that greedy anti-trust-law-violating companies bought up from the original developer and increased the price by 1000%.

[Smurftyours]

The only program I think I am going to end up pirating is PS CS5, and thats only because Adobe are assholes and price it insanely high for students. I even managed to get 3DS Max using my brother's university email in Autodesk's student program for free as long as I update my software every couple of years. As for music, since I don't really listen to a ton, I mainly use youtube down loader since its not really hurting the companies anymore than if I watched it on youtube. I can understand why so many people pirate, but its still stealing (your not physically taking something, but your still not buying it).

[Dionysos]

[source-maps]

see at it this way, allot of people can now try out different software packages and become really pro at it.. and they will need a license later if they make their job out of it
that wouldn't have happen'd if they couldn't pirate it..

music.. well you can see it on the TV, hear it on the radio.. listen to it on youtube.. why not download an mp3 file so you can put it on your mp3 player.. besides those millionaires are making lots of money and are adored for just making music anyway, which is not always the case, I know.. but the poor musicians usually trow out free mixtapes to become famous anyway
but in the end the big music stars make their bucks with concerts and such, they've learned to adapt

I always stream movies and TV series because I can't be arsed to wait for it to be released in the Netherlands.. slow shit country when it comes to that
oh hey NEW SEASON OFFICE SOON ON TV... don't worry you are only 3 seasons behind on America (or something )
now that I think about.. I haven't even downloaded/streamed a movie lately because they are all so shit anyway :S... I really can't think of a recent good movie.

last game I pirated was Metro2033, it was a pretty good game but because it has no re-playability I refuse to pay for it
with steam I see my self buying more and more games tho, when they are on sale.. and I usually pre-order Valve games... as I did with portal2, altho that didn't have a high replay value for me either, I know it's going to be supported over the next few years with free content so I'm oke with paying the full price for that

so, I'm oke with Pirating to a certain degree.

[Mr. Happy]

The only program I think I am going to end up pirating is PS CS5, and thats only because Adobe are assholes and price it insanely high for students. I even managed to get 3DS Max using my brother's university email in Autodesk's student program for free as long as I update my software every couple of years. As for music, since I don't really listen to a ton, I mainly use youtube down loader since its not really hurting the companies anymore than if I watched it on youtube. I can understand why so many people pirate, but its still stealing (your not physically taking something, but your still not buying it).

Another good example. Autodesk sucks and the government NEEDS to bring an anti-trust suit against them. They should not have been allowed to buy softimage. They intentionally broke XSI and raised the base price from $400 to $4000. I believe they don't have the right to control that software as they do not deliver on their own promises regarding the software and fucked over everyone who had a legal copy.

[nub]

Only way it's going to stop is if the government starts blacklisting websites and shit. Even then it might continue to some extent, although the risks involved might escalate exponentially.

When it comes to games, I like companies such as Valve that simply embrace piracy and don't have a second thought about it. You don't see Valve trying to come out with absurd anti-piracy software that's integrated in to Steam to prevent people from torrenting their games. They just forget about it and keep making successful games, which are always reasonably priced. The whole thing with Ubisoft's DRM where you have to be online to play was a total fuck up since the servers went down and people couldn't play until they fixed it, and in the end it got cracked by pirate groups anyway. They made themselves look bad and all the time and resources they spent making it was a waste.

Needless to say, I haven't torrented any games since I got my job. The most I'd do now is torrent to try a game. It never feels good to pay $50+ for a game and it turns out to be a total waste of money. For console owners, it's not an issue since you can always get Gamefly or go to a video rental store of some sort (Blockbuster, Hollywood Video, etc.).


As for music, I torrent mine. Youtube is cool, but you don't always get good quality. P2P programs like Limewire (which is gone now) and shit are WAY too risky to use. If you can find the right tracker and website, you can torrent FLAC audio for the music you like. I don't grow my library at a fast rate or anything, but you can really toss some money when buying albums. iTunes is cool and all, especially since they don't use any DRM crap anymore, and Rhapsody seems like a good service for real music enthusiasts, but torrenting isn't going to hurt big artists. They make almost nothing off album sales compared to concerts and touring. If it were some independent artist I really liked, yeah I'd definitely buy their album.


And lastly, most really high end software is always insanely expensive. Autodesk in particular. I'll never buy a personal copy of their products because it costs so damn much. Basically, I have to agree with Mr. Happy.


Piracy isn't great, but it's not as horrible as some companies make it out to be. I could understand the intense hate if it was REALLY hurting sales and causing budget cuts and for people to lose their jobs, but it's not.

[MayheM]

If you are a student there are places to get software for cheaper. These are full versions of software that is normally WAY more expensive. Take Photoshop CS 5 for example...
$180 bucks verses the $999. That is a big freaking price cut.
http://www.journeyed.com/item/Adobe/Pho ... 9QADSTCLPB

Then look at Autodesk...
$350 verses $5000. That is WAY WAY WAY cheap compared to the normal price.
http://www.journeyed.com/item/Autodesk/ ... /100975616

Nub I think you have mistaken allow the mod community to grow the fan base of Valve with them allowing piracy. If they embraced piracy, do you think you would be limited to being able to log into your account on only one computer at a time? That in and of itself is anti piracy.

But most games these days have demos, most software have demos to try out. The idea of "I want to learn it before I buy it" or "I want to beat the game before I decide if its worth paying for and the demo only gives me a few levels." Those are all ways to justify bad behavior.

Like Mr Happy, when it comes to music I can see getting things that are out of print or hard to find. The last thing i remember pirating was a band called Leeway. They are an old school NYC Hard Core band from the late 80s. I found a used CD of theirs for about 100 bucks on Amazon. Needless to say, there is no freaking way I will pay that much for one CD. So I found it and downloaded it. Even then it was hard to find. That I can at least understand.

As for it not hurting costs, and whatnot... Any idea why movie tickets have gone up so much in recent years? The fact of the matter is when you pirate material, you are unaware of the impact because it does not effect you. Meanwhile those who choose to pay, have to pay more. In all honesty if one person loses their job because of piracy it is wrong. You may try and say that is not a big deal to yourself, but try explaining or justifying it to the person who lost his or her job.

I am not trying to be all high and mighty here. It just worries me that so many people have become so morally ambiguous about it. Put yourself in their shoes. Would you all really be ok with someone taking your hard work?

[TheMiede]

You are either a pirate, or you arent. Just because you only choose to pirate a CD once in a while, makes you no less a pirate than someone who pirates 3D Studio Max or Movies on a daily basis.

[Jike]

I get what I want. I do what I want. If I cross borders, I eventually pay the price.

Guess what. I get used to it.