Bird Flu

[matteh]

Oh gawd. Im scared.

Bloody hell mate. Watch the news. Even the fucking papers that like to beef things up over the top say the virus cannot be passed from person to person. So unless your shagging turkeys in turkey, your safe.

[dragonfliet]

So unless your shagging turkeys in turkey, your safe.

ten points

[InternalRage]

So unless your shagging turkeys in turkey, your safe.

Aww, so I have to stop?

Fine.

[zombie@computer]

Zombie, we've been through this before in another thread but: The bird flu didn't kill soldiers in WW1, it was the Spanish Flu (essentially, the flu we have today is an evolution of that). The REASON it killed so many "healthy" young men was because they were living in absolute squalor conditions, without proper heating/cooling, an absolute lack of proper medicine (penicillin was around I believe, but 70% (not an exact number, but very close) of people are allergic to it and die. Still saved alot of lives though) and also a lack of steady, clean water supplies.

Yes, I know the flu doesn't kill, in fact, that's what I mentioned, it's usually phnemonia, though other things do kill.

We also DO have more technology that can help from 1918. We have instant access to clean water, we have properly heated and cooled buildings, we have simple drugs (that they didn't have access to in 1918) that can help prevent and combat phnemonia, etc. If bird flu DID cross over, millions WOULD die, it's true, but it would be, for the most part, the people I've mentioned. There are always flukes, but that's how life is. Look at SARS, a few young healthy people died, which is wierd, and there's nothing to really describe it, but that was such a fluke it's barely worth counting.

As for your question IR, When I say young I mean babies and infants: Their immune systems are simply too underdeveloped to have much of a chance to fight those types of flus, though there bodies are healthier and more resiliant than sick elderly peopel for the most part.

Would Bird Flu be bad? Yes, of course, preventable deaths are always tragic. Would it be as bad as the Spanish flu in the early 20th century? Not nearly? Should more be done to prepare against such an illness? Absolutely. But worrying about it is much, much more futile than worrying about dying in a car wreck, you're infinately more likely to die that way. Or perhaps on a plane, or perhaps from a siezure while playing insane FLASH movies in your basement. This is nothing to worry about for the majority of the population.

Or else my wife (Nurse) and the rest of the medical proffession are completely full of shit and Zombie knows where it's all at.

~Jason

i got my info from a substudy at virology, given by our national leading virologists (ab osterhaus and j galama, if you can be arsed to google it when you dont believe me). As far as i know there isnt a single medical profession that knows more about virusses than virologists, but offcourse i can be wrong. Also i dont know where you got the info that penicillin saved people from death, as birds flu is a virus and penicillin doenst work against virusses. It may only stop some superinfections, but hardly enough since most entities capable of giving us superinfections are virusses anyway.

oh, and

The REASON it killed so many "healthy" young men was because they were living in absolute squalor conditions, without proper heating/cooling, an absolute lack of proper medicine (penicillin was around I believe, but 70% (not an exact number, but very close) of people are allergic to it and die. Still saved alot of lives though) and also a lack of steady, clean water supplies.

though i agree that this situation has certainly helped the virus help spread and do its work, i havent seen any reports on exactly how much this helped. In other words: how many would have died in other situations? Offcourse the virus did not only sweep around the front lines. I suppose theres a lot less chance for "healthy" people to die in more hygienic conditions, but its bullocks to say they are safe and have a small chance to get ill. we just dont know and assume the worst. Its definately worse than a normal flu, even for the most fit people in the world

Oh, and could you tell me how you want to protect millions of people against all teh causes of pneumonia? If you knew, youd win six nobel prizes

the spanish flu is originated from the same birds as the current flu, just like hong kong flu and azian flu etc, like you said. This virus isnt the same, but it does share a lot of genetics. It shares over 90% of the genetics with the azian flue, and slightly less with the spanish flu, but its stupid to say you know the next virus will be much less harmfull, because of the enourmous amount of similarity. Its not possible to say HOW mortally this or the next strain of influenza will be in advance, but as athlete said, its better to be safe than sorry. As long as we dont rely too much about things we dont know, like thinking we are safe, we are safer. In other words, we say this disease CAN kill millions and even healthy yough people, but we cant say HOW MUCH wil die exactly. It might be millions, might be billions, might be thousands, might be hundreds, might be tens. depends on the genetics of the pandemic virus. And that, we can only find out after the pandemic has started.

i agree with you its nonsense to worry for the common population, theres absolutely nothing we can do. we have other people to worry for us.

[Persol]

the scary thing about the birds flu is that we are completely weaponless against it. We have no cure whatsoever.

We are weaponless against most versions of the flu. The flu shot given every year does NOT protect you from most new versions of the flu. More over, it's gerneally in short supply anyway.

The thing about the bird flu is that anything that is done to fight it now isn't certain to actually work. The bird flu is currently not very transmissable within our population. When (and if) if mutates into a more dangerous form it is likely the the current vaccine simply won't work.

*some quoted high rates of death within military*

This statistic is worthless. Military, hospital patients, and imprisoned populations will always have higher death rates. The living conditions of these people lead to quickly spreading viruses, which leads to many people being infected before the first infectee has recovered. The shear number of infected then hampers any attempt at care. The 5% death quote is much more representive, yet still a high end guess.

*something about source being vietnam*

This isn't the cause. Open air poultry markets are the cause, which even exist in locations where there isn't poverty. If you are going to blame it on anything, it would be the marketplace culture.


Basically, the 'damage' from this virus is going to be economical more than medical.... and politiians and media are just fanning the flames. It is just as likely that a strain we never considered comes up and bites us in the ass.

[KILLA-COW]

It's highly highly unlikely this will turn into an epidemic, the chances are so minimal it's barely worth the fuss and bother.

And even if the shit hits the fan and it reaches Britain then I'm sure sooner rather than later they'll find a counter-measure.

The damage is going to be caused to the economy and the poultry markets and things because they'll have to be so careful now. Really I wouldn't worry about it, just don't touch sneezing birds (:D)

[st0lve]

And even if the shit hits the fan and it reaches Britain then I'm sure sooner rather than later they'll find a counter-measure.

So you basicly don't care about the 1000s or even more that might die before it reaches you brits? What an attitude.

[InternalRage]

He never said he doesnt care, he just said he hopes it doesnt reach Britain. Would you rather it reach Britain aswell then st0lve? So we can all die from it aswell?

[Persol]

And even if the shit hits the fan and it reaches Britain then I'm sure sooner rather than later they'll find a counter-measure.

So you basicly don't care about the 1000s or even more that might die before it reaches you brits? What an attitude.

To be completely blunt, 1000s of people are not anything to loose sleep over (when it's natural). People die... end of story.

Furthermore, people are obviously more concerned about their owns lives more than people they will never know.

Lastly, if 'the shit hits the fan and reaches Britain'... there isn't anything you can do about it anyway. Any vaccine implemented at that point wouldn't do much good (well, depends on rate of infection... but wouldn't help with epidemic). As with any other epidemic level flu that may hit us, the only real defense is quarantine.

Voluntary 'quarantine' is what will hurt the economy the most, and it'll happen even if it doesn't need to.

[Athlete{UK}]

And even if the shit hits the fan and it reaches Britain then I'm sure sooner rather than later they'll find a counter-measure.

So you basicly don't care about the 1000s or even more that might die before it reaches you brits? What an attitude.

Well what could we do? I'd be very sad don't get me wrong. Just like i was gutted at the boxing day tsunami. But in a time like a spreading epidemic i would really be more concerned about home then anyone else.

[KILLA-COW]

And even if the shit hits the fan and it reaches Britain then I'm sure sooner rather than later they'll find a counter-measure.

So you basicly don't care about the 1000s or even more that might die before it reaches you brits? What an attitude.

1000s? What under like 50 people have died, sorry but 50 people isn't much if those 50 lead to us being able to find a counter measure.

Maybe I don't care so much about 100 odd people when 1000s and 1000s die each day of other diseases or are murdered, maybe those people deserve your thought, but they don't get it do they.

And I DO care about the 1000s that die, but I also care about my country and I don't want it reaching here and I was saying if it does reach Britain I'm sure by then or soon after they'd find a cure.

I think your attitudes by far worst by being so blunt and not reading peoples views properly.

[Jman]

I walk to school...So I'm owned I guess then?

[InternalRage]

I walk aswell. Join the club.

[Persol]

To put it in perspective, walking to school is more dangerous than picking up and licking an infected fowl.

[Caste]

M.O.O.N, that spells Bird Flu