AVATAR

[vcool]

It's more than 3D, 3D has been around in various forms for quite some time now. It's geting your CG organic stuff look so believable you can't conclude whether it's a prop or it's pure CG. Avatar is a milestone on the road of blending the real and the virtual.

Just to finish for tonight, I want to say something that most of you wil probably hate me for. Does the HL2 series have a good story? Is it refrshing and new, and i's never been done before?

Let's face it, HL series has a generic story. Scientists do an experiment, shit breaks, aliens invade, you have to get out of base to save your ass and maybe a few people. Fast forward 20 years, we are colonized by an alien species and we live in an Orwellian world. Gee, how clever. Not as if there's been a ton of movies and books about alien invasions and the lone hero who saves the day. Perhaps the only thing special is the Gman, and he's the only reason I can't call the entire thing banal. Crysis did something very similar with aliens, but it didn't have it's Gman. That's why it's banal.

What HL series excelled at is storytelling and immersion. Oh and gameplay too. Great voice acting, great design, good pacing - it's great!

Now how different is Avatar? A generic story that's been around for the last few hundred years if not more, but excellently retold. There may not be a Gman, but the visuals make up for it, and it was by far the most I was ever immersed into a movie. Good acting, great design, tried and tested pacing that doesn't feel slow or fast - it's great!

I am expecting people to disagree and by all means do so. If you want a decent story (from the AAA titles, I'm sure there are plenty of intereting stuff in JRPGs or indie games or whatever. Avatar is, after all, an AAA movie) check out Mass Effect. It's a bit more than generic alien invasions, and though it's similar to Star Trekian Borg there's a nice plot twist that differs it from other space opera.

Now of course, I am limitied in what I've read and saw myself. I am sure there exists a novel about sentient machines harvesting organic lifeforms. Then again, following this argument - can there really be something innovating these days? Sooner or later and I'm afraid it's happening now, 99% of stories that can be told will be told, and the only progression in the entertainment industry will be in the presentation.

EDIT: Argh, can't stop thinking about this now.

I think when we reach to this "climax" of storytelling, and we are hit in the face with a brick that is stale writing, it will be technology driving art forward and giving new possiblities. What about interactive movie/game blends? Right now we have something similar with the latest RPGs, but it isn't perfected yet. Imagine sort of playnig a game but being in a movie where characters make decisions and do whatever, and yo can influence their actions indefinitely. Basically like simulating a life with a given starting plot where everyone is a robot making decisions based on whatever factors, not human of course because that would require a model of a human brain and if we have that it sooner or later will attain self-awareness and realise it's a slave of sorts. inb4rightgroups.

But yeah, in my opinion art will have to reach it's peak at one point or another, because there's so much one can do. then it's technology and new ways of doing stuff that will bring a revolution.

[staberas]

OMG vcool
you actually made me read your wall of text

ok your are mostly right but as far Avatar i expected a little more better storytelling and script from Cameron

[dissonance]

The movie looked jizz-in-my-pants amazing, which makes it even more of a shame that the plot was complete shit.

[Dionysos]

I get that a plot or story hasn't got to be revolutionary for the movie/game/whatever to be good, but being inspired by a story and just taking it and making it look like blatant attempt to make more money... well at least it seems to make that impression on quite a few people. I'm not against basic plots as long as the movie is *refreshing* or well done to *compensate*, but... well everything has been said a thousand times before.

Oh, and a last note (to reiterate I'm sure) about eventually running out of fresh plots; sure, considering infinity and bla etc, but in reality as long as the world changes, society evolves, there will always be new stories to be found. Probably following certain (evolving) archetypes, but nevertheless fresh stories, adapting to a changing world. It's always been thus.

[Mr-Jigsaw]

Tell me as many games/books/movies that share the same story as HL2. Now tell me how many share the same story with Avatar.

But as far as I'm concerned, the movie didn't suck just because the story was rehashed. It was bad because it was cherubic with a faulty message that, because of the quality of all the other elements in the film, people would be willing to either accept/ignore but not denounce, as they should have. Personally, I was insulted by the film, and found it hard to continue watching. The conflict was completely 2-dimensional. And yes, while the setup gave an opportunity for a very complicated and mature story to play out, they through it all away when the humans became insanely evil(and stupid, "HAHA, scientists been toking up on the job, let's laugh at them and hope they don't actually try to show us what they were talking about because it definitely can't be seen just by watching a Na'avi ride a space-horse or a space-pterodactyl[and the creature to creature USB was stupid, and has no evolutionary basis]) and the Na'avi were the inarguable moral victors.

Try to tell me one time the marines were ever portrayed in a good light. Pretty much every time you see one, they're angrily telling Sully to get out of their way or yelling "Hoo-rah" or "Let's get some" while firing a machine gun, burning down the rainforest, stepping on a baby, and smoking a cigar rolled from the last tree left on earth(which just so happened to be a delicate bonsai owned by a very frail, sympathetic, old lady who loved it like the children she lost to each world war[one, two, and Grenada]).

[YokaI]

What chop is basically saying : Stories have been retold countless of times. This story emulates the typical story type of indigenous society vs "civilized" society, and just because it shares the same goal doesn't mean it's a bad story. If you look at films such as Star Wars (The original 3 that is) they all follow archetypes that have been used countless times, but that's more an educated nod to fellow readers and observers. Typically, if you want completely new stories you should study films from a different society, which have different archetypes and story concepts. Like france, japan, spain, other countries that are large in the film industry. Specifically, French movies are pretty good.

That being said, I guess I haven't seen the movie, so it could be EXACTLY like Pocahontas except with more blue people like everyone is claiming it is.

Though on a side note, 3d glasses really aren't my thing and I see them as a gimmick. They used this gimmick from 1952 - 1955 to get movie theaters more attention, because they were worried movie goers would stay at home watching television instead. They're doing it now to reduce the % of online piracy by making it "a whole new experience" to watch it in 3d. It's the same old industry bullshit to expect from hollywood films, my view is that if you aren't a good enough director to work with the limitations of a "2d display" you shouldn't be making movies. That being said, James Cameron certainly can make movies, I'm not saying this movie in particular, but I think you can understand my position.

Anyway, yeah, I'll probably go. Hopefully it will be still running come valentines day.

[Major Banter]

Right, I'm going to see it on Saturday with the girlfriend. Will also take best mate to reduce distraction. Will write review on return.

[MayheM]

I saw the movie yesterday in 3D. I have to say I enjoyed it very much. Sure the story has been done, "Dances with wolves" "Last of the Mohicans" etc... Outsider goes in and learns the ways of the people you know that old shtick. But i agree with those who say it was told in a different way. I do however also agree with Jigsaw about the marines being presented in an unfavorable light throughout the entire movie. All that aside, I do not go into movies thinking too much about them. I take them as entertainment and not as a political tide meant to sway opinions. I guess that's because I do not let outside influences change my views. It was obviously a story about humans messing up the earth and moving on to find another place to pillage. But it is a movie, no different from any other work of fiction.

YokaI, there is no doubt the 3D thing is a gimick. It is a pretty cool one though. Between the immersive nature of the visuals in the film and the way the 3D was utilized it made the movie more enjoyable.

Anyway, I liked the movie a lot...

[coder0xff]

Right, I'm going to see it on Saturday with the girlfriend. Will also take best mate to reduce distraction. Will write review on return.

That's a good idea. Whenever I go to a movie with just a g/f, I don't even remember what movie we went to see. I hadn't planned on seeing it, but with the descriptions of the eye candy I may have to.

[Dionysos]

It seems a little like crysis, everyone has to go and see what all the fuzz is about. Btw, not thinking in some movies could be considered an offense to their creators

[Terr]

and the creature to creature USB was stupid, and has no evolutionary basis

I don't see why that's a foregone conclusion in fact, it's a lot like a flying pink dragon.

....Did you see that? Perhaps from across the entire world, I just forced an idea into your head! Incredible, huh? But what possible evolutionary advantage could there be to that kinds of malarky, I ask?

Try to tell me one time the marines were ever portrayed in a good light.

IIRC they aren't "marines" in a governmental sense, they've been retained by a monopoly state-chartered organization. Maybe "ex-".

And while you've got Grizzled Sadist and Corporate Suit, remember that Chirpy Pilot did a heel-face-turn and then a heroic sacrifice.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/Avatar

[Mr-Jigsaw]

Actually, no, you didn't. I really shouldn't have to explain why the USB was stupid, but for you, I'll make an exception.

Ever notice how most of the creatures had it: the space-pterodactyls, the super space-pterodactyls, the space-horses, and the space-jaguar thingy(not including the Na'avi. But notice how only the Na'avi had the ability to actually connect them? Unless of course all of the creatures worked together(which Sully's first encounter with the space-hammerhead-rhino and the fast insect thingy completely debunked) then the appendage is stupid, because it allows all of those creatures to be manipulated and used by a another creature much weaker than they. This doesn't make sense.

And haven't you ever heard someone say that there's no such thing as an ex-marine? You can call them whateve you want, but their function in the film was to be a military force, plus, they were mostly(or completely?) recruited from the military. As far as I'm concerned, they're marines.

I would have respected the film if it wasn't just one pilot who turned against the colonel, but no, the theme was that humans were bad, except for the special few who actually had consciences.

And the deus ex machina pretty much ruined any chances of the film having any tangible value for me. Nature isn't going to come and just kill the people exploiting it, it's gonna kill everyone.

So all in all, it was a visually stunning yet immature, misguided, anvilicious(don't try to out tv-trope me) tale of white guilt.

[Terr]

Actually, no, you didn't.

Don't be pedantic: Whether or not you had a mental-image (as nebulous as that term is) versus a understanding the concept is besides the point.

I really shouldn't have to explain why the USB was stupid, but for you, I'll make an exception.

How touching.

Unless of course all of the creatures worked together(which Sully's first encounter with the space-hammerhead-rhino and the fast insect thingy completely debunked) then the appendage is stupid, because it allows all of those creatures to be manipulated and used by a another creature much weaker than they. This doesn't make sense.

"Completely debunked"? Rank hyperbole, dear sir, and I shall assume you are not serious in that phrasing. I mean your claim that they never work together was directly contradicted by the events at the end of the film, which you yourself note further on in your post, so I don't understand how your position is logical.

As tertiary support, if you choose to read the "Scriptment" for the movie (even more anvilicious!) Sully's "first encounter" with them was supposed to be a scene where:

one of the huge hammer-head beasts knocks down a fence and takes a lot of bullet rounds before dying, all to allow a following predator to leap over it's corpse to get at the tasty human-candy inside. Which was then lampshaded and explained by characters later.

. You can certainly claim they could've showed more to explain why the fictional world is set up as it is, but there's nothing "contradictory" unless you're already rejecting huge baseline swaths of the fiction.

[Penney]

I just liked the movie because it was one badass little package to see for 15 bucks in IMAX with your peripheral vision completely eaten up by a fake 3D image, that way totally felt like I was in the whole ordeal and there was no visual escape

[arjaycob]

I watched Avatar last night, in 3D, and I have to admit I was a little disappointed too. But I blame it on the script, 2-dimensional characters and the "preachy" feel. Technically, the movie was a 10/10. Because of the story etc I had to drop my score a bit but can't feel good about giving it anything less than an 8/10 simply because it is the most amazing LOOKING movie I have seen in years!


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