You people are crazy!

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Re: You people are crazy!

Postby MrTwoVideoCards on Mon May 06, 2013 12:11 pm

I agree with the simplicity of some of the tools, but I ain't gonna lie. Some of you guys are delusional. Source is absolutely the most frustrating engine to work with, hands down. It's only made marginally better and tolerable if you move over to the newer engine branches such as Alien Swarm. I've been using it for 7 years now so I am probably insane.

There's no doubt you can still make some sexy stuff with source, but the journey there is going to be far more tedious and complicated. Hopefully Source 2 alleviates these issues going forward, but unless Valve hired an entirely different set of engine programmers I fear it's not going to be up to par with other offerings on the current market.

That being said, I do love source. I think the strongest thing about it is that you have a base to work off of. Valve provides a lot of templates for pretty much all of their work in the source code. Ents, ai, shaders, etc etc.

Cryengine 3 and UDK pretty much have squat in terms of starting content, so it's slow to make content at first. However, in reality if you're using source for a project you're much more likely to ditch valves work anyways.

However that's also the Achilles heel. Going into Portal 2 or ASW source code, you have to rip so much game specific stuff related to those titles it's terrible. It's either stay on source 2007 and get fucked with bad performance, or go to portal 2/asw/l4d and have to deal with ripping out all the split screen and game specific shit. The former takes a while, but eventually you have a skeleton as your base to work off of.
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Re: You people are crazy!

Postby kraid on Mon May 06, 2013 3:16 pm

I'd be more then happy if source would be able to import .fbx and .tga directly, had a material editor included and lightmapping on props too.
I can life with the rest the way it is.
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Re: You people are crazy!

Postby mazman34340 on Mon May 06, 2013 5:30 pm

Let me clarify a few things, seeing my first post was at 2 AM... but I am still feeling very drowsy. I know how to use VTF edit, but not modify the VMT files. Just using the default settings has worked for me and I have made multiple custom textures.

The starting content in Hammer is greatly appreciated but I can't use that to promote my work as an environment designer, or at least not as effectively if I have to disclaim all the Valve assets. Same applies to borrowed assets from other modders.

Overall, Source has a very large community and a large support network but it's graphics and effects are outdated (though, I am working on CS:GO with more modern graphics). The main issue is the user unfriendliness (or outright hostility). So, pro's and con's but Source has more con's thans pro's.

To me, Source is a good 'starter' engine with it's large community and setting up basic lighting, sounds, assets, etc. Also, the fact that many people still play source games so I will experience play testing. Then, I have to quickly learn UDK and it's system of setting up effects for future maps.

Thanks for suggesting an easier way of importing Maya files BTW nub. I have to look at GUIStudioMDL.
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Re: You people are crazy!

Postby Black_Stormy on Tue May 07, 2013 5:00 am

MrTwoVideoCards wrote:Source 2


You'll be waiting another 7 years for that one, buddy. Valve are still working on porting source to linux, why would they bother doing that if they were working on a new engine?

kraid wrote:material editor


https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wik ... ial_Editor

If you have an artist, use UDK. If you don't, use Source.
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Re: You people are crazy!

Postby SmileTime on Tue May 07, 2013 5:09 am

I used to love/defend source but ya it's a real pain in the ass. Remember Source was gldsrc was q2, Hammer used to be Worldcraft and was meant for much simpler times, everything else has just been piled on so it's like a jalopy. Didn't Carmack say there's a tiny bit of Wolf3D code in there?

But it's still fine for level design. Wanna code? Headaches. Import assets? Headaches (well WWMT is making that a ton better). Animate? Oh no, let's not even go there.

But if you wanna make a map for a game you like Hammer works and a grey box looks the same in any engine.'
There's still a lot of headaches for mapping if you wanna make something really polished and ambitious or if you're really new.

I'd guess most Source SDK users at this point are mappers, and most of them have been using it for a long time and they're using stock assets so some of the disadvantages as an Engine go away.

I still prefer hammer but I think that's just because after so many years of use it's really ingrained in my brain and the games it runs are some of my favorites of all time.
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Re: You people are crazy!

Postby Dives on Tue May 07, 2013 6:38 am

Black_Stormy wrote:
MrTwoVideoCards wrote:Source 2


You'll be waiting another 7 years for that one, buddy. Valve are still working on porting source to linux, why would they bother doing that if they were working on a new engine?


Largely because of Tom Leonard's LinkedIn profile listing "Senior Developer, Source 2 at Valve Corporation", Source Filmmaker having references to Source 2 in code and new Hammer icons, and Gabe confirming a new engine.

I'd imagine they're porting current source games to OpenGL (and Linux is a natural extension from that) because they want both the new engine and current engine games to use the same graphics API for ease of updating.

Also they would be stupid to go onto next-gen consoles with Source. Source needs a massive upgrade to be able to look half as good as the UE4 games we'll be seeing in the coming years.
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Re: You people are crazy!

Postby MrTwoVideoCards on Tue May 07, 2013 7:51 am

Yeah, for sure source 2 is happening. This year. I promise <3.
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Re: You people are crazy!

Postby kraid on Tue May 07, 2013 1:33 pm

MrTwoVideoCards wrote:Yeah, for sure source 2 is happening. This year. I promise <3.

I rely on that promise now.
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Re: You people are crazy!

Postby OCASM on Tue May 07, 2013 1:47 pm

With the next-generation of consoles coming this year hopefully they'll show something at E3.
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Re: You people are crazy!

Postby Knights on Wed May 08, 2013 5:20 am

I agree completely with your complaints.... but as the below quote says.
Dives wrote:Because Source Engine is from 2004. Source 2 is coming soon. Just hold onto your pants for a little while longer.


I'm kind of shocked they havn't updated or at least thrown us some beta versions of what they are working on just because they are valve. But I guess we'll have to wait.. The most useless feature "in my opinion" in Hammer is the lighting preview option.... :smt042 It's laughable that it's even in there..
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Re: You people are crazy!

Postby mazman34340 on Thu May 09, 2013 1:15 am

Introducing myself to COD 4 map making tools, it's not too difficult to pickup, seeing its the third map maker I started working on. I can't compare it to hammer, since I am not familiar with either programs, but I can't scroll in 3D view as easily. At least all the tools are in a single menu and it offers easy maya file transfers (I think). Of course, this is just for the Raven internship.

Looking at the compile tools, it seems they released an almost generous amount of information including example maya files, animations, rigs, etc.
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Re: You people are crazy!

Postby nub on Thu May 09, 2013 2:59 am

Black_Stormy wrote:You'll be waiting another 7 years for that one, buddy. Valve are still working on porting source to linux, why would they bother doing that if they were working on a new engine?


Because there's probably two completely different teams within Valve that are working on porting Source to Linux and developing Source 2. As far as we know, there aren't any other games being developed aside from (hopefully) Half Life 3. I doubt there's a Left 4 Dead 3 in development, and there's certainly not going to be a Team Fortress 3 since TF2 has so much riding on it. I don't see Portal 3 being likely either since they would be far better off adding more content to Portal 2's online cooperative component.
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Re: You people are crazy!

Postby SM Sith Lord on Thu May 09, 2013 5:34 am

I edited the Sith engine for many years. It had only community-created development tools and used a negative space level editor. This means that you had to create your architecture by cutting and adjoining each cell and portal manually.

All engines are easy to use compared to that shit.
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Re: You people are crazy!

Postby ErikKiller on Thu May 09, 2013 10:59 am

No wonder you turned to the Dark Side.
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Re: You people are crazy!

Postby MrTwoVideoCards on Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:12 pm

wat
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